I have trouble understanding the Trinity

[Serenity Now]

The theology of a trinity is not expressed anywhere in the Bible

The term "Trinity" is not used in the bible but the theology is there:

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-The-Trinity/

John 10:30 - I and [my] Father are one.

Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

1 Corinthians 8:6 - But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.

2 Corinthians 13:14 - The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, [be] with you all. Amen. ([The second [epistle] to the Corinthians was written from Philippi, [a city] of Macedonia, by Titus and Lucas.])

Matthew 3:16-17 - And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: (Read More...)

John 14:26 - But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

1 John 5:7-8 - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (Read More...)

John 14:16-17 - And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; (Read More...)

Colossians 2:9 - For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Philippians 2:5-8 - Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: (Read More...)

Genesis 1:26 - And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

John 1:1-51 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (Read More...)

1 Peter 1:2 - Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Ephesians 4:4-6 - [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; (Read More...)

2 Corinthians 1:21-22 - Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, [is] God; (Read More...)

John 10:30-36 - I and [my] Father are one. (Read More...)

Genesis 3:22 - And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

 

[Serenity Now]

To me the trinity makes absolute sense in that I can't conceive of God, Christ and the Holy Spirit being separate. Do I fully understand the science? Absolutely not nor could any human mind probably grasp the "science" if it was available.

The fact is we have theories of how the universe began but no proof of anything. There are so many things we believe today in science that very well may end up being as factual as those that believe the earth was flat.

Faith is NOT a weakness and in many respects believing in the trinity is faith because there is absolute no way to prove it in a secular way. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are 3 in 1 and of that I have absolute faith.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Just a word of advice. Some of these descriptions of the Trinity are considered heresy depending on your domination. Eggs, water, gas, etc. So keep in mind what is accepted to one is heresy to another.

Don't eggs have 4 parts? _______ Shell, membrane, white and yoke ?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So that's like Arianism then? I know both contested the nature of Jesus but.........

Yes, like Arius, in that Arius taught God is un-begotten and without a beginning. The Son, because he is begotten can Not be God in the sense that the Father is.
The Son did Not exist from all eternity, but was created and exists by the will of the Father.

Un-begotten, without beginning - Psalms 90:2
The Son was Not ' before ' the beginning as God was ' before ' the beginning, so the Son is created.
Created ' before ' the rest of creation, thus making the Son as only-begotten in the heavens - Revelation 1:5; Revelation 3:14 B - the beginning of the creation by God.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Those words are also used in the baptism instructions in the Didache. However in the meaning of the time " in the name of" meant with the authority of. It did not imply they were a single entity.
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Good point ^ above^ because we use the expression ' in the name of the law ' knowing that is authority and Not a person.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Eggs are not like the trinity as the substances within the egg are different which is not the case of the Trinity. Each part is made of different substances whereas God is not of different substances. Not all parts of equal. Also not all eggs contain all 4 parts. There is also the issue of development in which for example the yolk has been consumed already. The Egg example to some is considered Tritheism not a Trinity

One priest said if you take away one of the petals from a clover you No longer have a trinity.
However, sometimes people find 4-leaf clovers.

Neither eggs nor clover, etc. change the gospel words of John 10:29 and John 14:28 that God is greater than all ( all would include Jesus ).

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I am just stating views of others that have objected to the analogue. No more than that.

Shad, could it be said that I am just stating views of (or from) Jesus.......? ________ John 10:29 A; John 14:28 B.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Hardly. The Egg example has existed for centuries along with it's flaws.

I'm a father, brother, son and spouse. I respond from these places at various times while still being all these things. God is three-in-One, He has self-fellowship but is wholly in every way, One.

If you think of divine spirit as water vapor, you see how would could take three separate batches of vapor, blow and swirl them into One. They are together. "Trinity" is an ancient Roman term, I prefer "Tri-Unity".

Trusting the Son brings the whole Tri-Unity to dwell in you, and give you eternal life. No one's perfect, save Jesus. Trust His death and resurrection for eternal life.

 

[Shiranui117]

This doesn't work either as its modelism. You can be a spouse to anyone or no one. Being a spouse is not a distinct person within you. Water does not work either as water does not exist as water, ice and vapour at once. Again modelism.

Actually, water does exist simultaneously as ice, water and vapor at its triple point. So yes, water can work just fine as an explanation of the Trinity.

 

[BilliardsBall]

This doesn't work either as its modelism. You can be a spouse to anyone or no one. Being a spouse is not a distinct person within you. Water does not work either as water does not exist as water, ice and vapour at once. Again modelism.

God is three persons. My analogy could be taken to three molecules, not one molecule.

Perhaps the analogy you seek is better found within marriage. My wife and I are one flesh and are admonished to be of one mind. Yet, clearly God gave spouses to bring divergent views together, and clearly we are two fleshly beings.

If you like, you can see three persons on three thrones who have distinct ministries and spheres of influence, and who never disagree with one another. They always have the same thoughts and are in the same mind. But since God is spirit, the human mind would more easily understand him as three cups of water poured into one bowl and mixed together than as one anthropomorphic person with three heads.

 

[jaybird]

It is not hard to understand when you think of "God" as a family. There is only one family that is God but that family consists of the Father and the Son. Just like the Jones family is just one family but may have several members. Each member of the family is completely separate and apart from each other but they make up the one family. The Father and the Son are completely separate "persons" but they make up "God". One problem is that many people use the word "God" to refer to the Father but the Father is only part of God. But there is still only one God just like there is just one family. People actually make it more complicated by trying to explain how three "persons" can still be only one. But when you realize that the "one" is the family or group it makes more sense. At least it does when you let your mind be open and do not try to stick with official "church" explanations.

i have heard of the trinity taught as a "family" the only issue with this is if you are not one of these 3 members then we are on the outside of the family. which seems to go against what Jesus taught.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Which are separate water molecules that form into one. This is tritheism



Dualism



Tritheism.

I would appreciate your insight, to correct my heresy. I believe our finite understanding is limiting in analogies. Do you have a preferred analogy to help me better understand?

 

[BilliardsBall]

Keep in mind what is consider heresy varies group from group. The example you gave are rejected in general by most mainstream denominations. Those examples may be acceptable to which ever one you associate with.

Tri-personna and Scutum Fide were the views I was comfortable with when I was a Christian and at the present for explaining the idea to those that were never Christian. You should be able to look up the Scutum Fidei easily.

Thanks, but I reject many of the doctrines of the mainstream groups. I regard those who adhere to the literal Bible and sound doctrine. This is still many millions of people.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Then I can not help you. Literalism is untenable.

I find untenable mainline groups that constantly uphold doctrines they have imagined to be true, rather than finding them in the scriptures. After careful research, I trusted Jesus for salvation. I encourage you to reconsider your stance on a literal Word of God.

 

[Desert Snake]

Then I can not help you. Literalism is untenable.

This is the Christianity DIR

 

[JesusFreaKMyHero1]

This isn't a debate I've just decided to mull it over again after having been trying a Unitarian path for about three years. The principal parts I have confusion over are:

1. Why would the Son pray to himself or say he doesn't know the will of the Father if he is on the same level?
2. How does the three in one work without being slightly polytheistic?
3. Did most early Christians movements pre-Nicea Council follow this ideology
4. Can the Trinity be understood figuratively rather than literally?

Again I'm trying to debate I just really want to understand it but have great trouble wrapping my head around the concept.
P.S I haven't been on here in I think years so if there have been great changes help to adjust and its good to be back

Simply it's just God in 3 forms, but still only 1 true God.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Simply it's just God in 3 forms, but still only 1 true God.

Isn't it simple that God had No beginning - Psalms 90:2
Isn't it simple that Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God - Revelation 1:5; Revelation 3:14
Then, only God was before the beginning, and Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.

God and Jesus are always in the masculine gender, whereas God's spirit is neuter as 'it' - Numbers 11:17; Numbers 11:25
Even in English we speak of a neuter in a gender sense such as calling a car or a ship as a 'she' although it always remains a neuter ( it ) .
God does Not send forth Himself, but God sends His spirit (it) - Psalms 104:30