I know who killed Jesus

[IAMABELIEVER]

So how exactly is God's existence "established as fact."

Believing without any doubt is a completely different ball game. You can believe doubtlessly that something is a "fact" without it being "established as fact."

On that note, it's prehaps best to approach "established facts" as not requiring faith or belief at all. An established fact is not a "thing hoped for."

For me the things I have seen over many years have established God's existence as fact. But I have to admit that faith in things I couldn't prove started me believing.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

For me the things I have seen over many years have established God's existence as fact. But I have to admit that faith in things I couldn't prove started me believing.

That's a much lower standard of proof than what can be called "established fact" on the level of "hemlock being deadly for everyone."

 

[IAMABELIEVER]

I'm done seeking, because I honestly don't think there is anything to seek. Well, anything supernatural that is.

Could it be that your existence on this forum is a way of seeking?

 

[IAMABELIEVER]

That's a much lower standard of proof than what can be called "established fact" on the level of "hemlock being deadly for everyone."

If you had seen what I have seen maybe you would see things differently. Maybe not. What might cause me to draw closer to God might push you away.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

If you had seen what I have seen maybe you would see things differently. Maybe not. What might cause me to draw closer to God might push you away.

In light of this, you should try and work out the relationship between this statement and the previous ones concerning "established fact" and intellectual dishonesty.

A person who knows the chemical makeup of hemlock cannot look at its chemistry and deny its deadly nature.

But a person can look at "what you've seen" and be pushed away from God.

Not so "factual" any more.

 

[Tristesse]

Could it be that your existence on this forum is a way of seeking?

Nope, I just have a fascination with religion in general. All religions, not just the one you cling to and claim is true.

 

[IAMABELIEVER]

Nope, I just have a fascination with religion in general. All religions, not just the one you cling to and claim is true.

Sounds a lot like me.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

Exactly WHY are you/were you seeking?

What did you imagine was missing? What thing/idea was not known?

The most imcomprehensible thing about religion is the "need" for it.

WHY?

What good is it? Seriously. WHAT does it offer other a sense of self-righteous moral superiority.

Is THAT what theists seek?

 

[Tristesse]

Sounds a lot like me.

I can assure you, it's nothing like you. Although I don't know you. I have no prospect of becoming a christian or any other religion. I just enjoy a good debate.

 

[sojourner]

I know who killed Jesus

It was Professor Plumb, in the library, with a candlestick!:sleep:

How could the God of life orchestrate the death of God's Son?
This doesn't answer questions, at all. It raises questions that ought not be raised.

 

[IAMABELIEVER]

In light of this, you should try and work out the relationship between this statement and the previous ones concerning "established fact" and intellectual dishonesty.

A person who knows the chemical makeup of hemlock cannot look at its chemistry and deny its deadly nature.

But a person can look at "what you've seen" and be pushed away from God.

Not so "factual" any more.

When you compile all those things together they become undisputable truth of God, but it would have been easy in the beginning to go another direction. Some of the things that have made me strong came in the way of suffering and trial. Others came in the way of success and joy. But it wasn’t just one event that brought the undisputable truth to light, but many. Kinda like science.

 

[IAMABELIEVER]

It was Professor Plumb, in the library, with a candlestick!:sleep:

How could the God of life orchestrate the death of God's Son?
This doesn't answer questions, at all. It raises questions that ought not be raised.

Yes I agree.

 

[IAMABELIEVER]

I can assure you, it's nothing like you. Although I don't know you. I have no prospect of becoming a christian or any other religion. I just enjoy a good debate.

I understand I know that many people will probably never believe in this life.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

When you compile all those things together they become undisputable truth of God, but it would have been easy in the beginning to go another direction. Some of the things that have made me strong came in the way of suffering and trial. Others came in the way of success and joy. But it wasn’t just one event that brought the undisputable truth to light, but many. Kinda like science.

In what way are they indisputable if someone else can compile all these things together and - in your own words - be pushed away from God?

When, on the other hand, a person who knows the chemistry of hemlock must agree that it's deadly?

This is nothing like science.

 

[Tristesse]

I understand I know that many people will probably never believe in this life.

Thats the other thing, I don't think there will be another life. But when we die and find out the hindus were right, boy both our faces will be read. haha

 

[IAMABELIEVER]

Exactly WHY are you/were you seeking?

What did you imagine was missing? What thing/idea was not known?

The most imcomprehensible thing about religion is the "need" for it.

WHY?

What good is it? Seriously. WHAT does it offer other a sense of self-righteous moral superiority.

Is THAT what theists seek?

For me I saw something in people I respected that made me want to know more about it. I wasn't a believe for many years but my seeking the answers to many nagging questions helped me to become one. It doesn't seem fair that I have been so blessed, but I am so thankful.

 

[IAMABELIEVER]

In what way are they indisputable if someone else can compile all these things together and - in your own words - be pushed away from God?

When, on the other hand, a person who knows the chemistry of hemlock must agree that it's deadly?

This is nothing like science.

It’s kind of like the chemistry of hemlock; you have to have the proper amount in order for it to be deadly.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

It’s kind of like the chemistry of hemlock; you have to have the proper amount in order for it to be deadly.

That doesn't address the question.

 

[IAMABELIEVER]

In what way are they indisputable if someone else can compile all these things together and - in your own words - be pushed away from God?

When, on the other hand, a person who knows the chemistry of hemlock must agree that it's deadly?

This is nothing like science.

If others are pussed away before all these things are compiled they will have no indisputable evidence.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

If others are pussed away before all these things are compiled they will have no indisputable evidence.

Yes, but we're talking about after they review your "indisputable evidence."

If it were scientific, then anyone who reviewed your evidence must conclude that God exists.