I learned something terrible tonight

[methylatedghosts]

I just saw a documentary called Sicko.

I am absolutely shocked and appalled at the healthcare system in the U.S.! That people need to mortgage sell their house and move in with their children's family simply because they otherwise can't afford healthcare? That a medication can cost $120USD in the U.S. and $0.05USD in Cuba? That the prisoners in guantanamo get better care than the families who's lives they ruined? That people actually get turned away from hospitals when they're in need? That health insurance companies have 37 pages of pre-existing conditions that are basically an automatic non-acceptance for insurance policy?

Is that really what it's like? Is the U.S. so backwards that an 80-y-o man must work to be able to afford his meds instead of enjoying retirement?

According to that documentary, an average U.S. citizen pays $7k in health care each year, while cubans pay $250 and are among the top in the world for volunteering health services to third-world countries.

This isn't meant to be an anti-U.S. rant, but I really didn't know it was this bad! How did it come to this?

 

[BucephalusBB]

Let me guess, michael moore?
I have seen only 2 of his documentaries, but he is extremely good in picking out the extremes and leaving the good parts alone. I am not saying this is the case in this documentary, but the rest of his ducumentaries are quite biased..

 

[+Xausted]

This isn't meant to be an anti-U.S. rant, but I really didn't know it was this bad! How did it come to this?[/quote]
oh come on, please let us have a U.S rant...it will be so much fun

 

[methylatedghosts]

Let me guess, michael moore?
I have seen only 2 of his documentaries, but he is extremely good in picking out the extremes and leaving the good parts alone. I am not saying this is the case in this documentary, but the rest of his ducumentaries are quite biased..

Yes it is - but even so - that one person even would be forced to have no treatment simply because they can't afford it is horrible!

 

[whereismynotecard]

A lot of old people do have to work though... I've got two rather old ladies working at KFC with me.

 

[methylatedghosts]

Hardly any people over 65 here work. Occasionally you'll see a few who still work, but more because they'd rather work than sit at home.

 

[whereismynotecard]

Hardly any people over 65 here work. Occasionally you'll see a few who still work, but more because they'd rather work than sit at home.

One of the old ladies is in her 70s, and the other one didn't say how old she was... not to me anyway. The one in her 70s loves being old... She brags about it; it is weird. She'll say things like "You're just a baby. You're all babies to me," and then laugh, and she likes to call the manager, who is in his 40s, a 'kid.' She is always talking about being old......

 

[methylatedghosts]

Hehehe sounds like she's enjoying the later years then =D

What was interesting was George Bush's reply to "I have to work 3 jobs"...

"That's uniquely American isn't it? That's amazing. Fantastic"

0.o

 

[Valjean]

Our healthcare "system" is clearly a trainwreck. We spend two to three times what other developed countries do in taxes dedicated to healthcare, yet we see none of the benefit. Everyone else is able to offer universal coverage for a fraction of what we already pay, and, on top of taxes, Americans must still pay for private insurance coverage or directly to providers for care!

 

[Troublemane]

Nope, its all a big lie. Nobody in America gets refused health care because they are not covered by insurance. Thats been a big myth for a long time. If you go to a hospital and need care you will not be turned away. Also, "Sicko" makes reference to the Cuban medical system as being perfect, which is a joke. I know Cubans personally who escaped Cuba to come to the US, and one was a "doctor" there---In Cuba its the law there be a "doctor" living on every block. If you take their intelligence test and score high enough you are proclaimed a doctor by the state, and are forced to provide medical treatment, dispense medicine, etc.---This is pure fascism, nothing else.

Michael Moore is an accomplished liar. He has been sued by many people who have been filmed by him and had their words taken out of context then edited to fit his agenda. Here is an article at Wiki giving an overview of these controversies:
Michael Moore controversies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I personally met a cameraman here in Florida who had filmed Pres. Bush during the 9/11 schoolroom visit scene Moore put into his film "Farenheit 9-11", the scene that Moore edited to make it seem that Bush spent minutes not knowing what to do. The cameraman told me it was his footage in the movie, and it was mixed around. In reality Bush was informed, waited a minute, then announced he had to go, it was not drawn out like in the film. (There are plenty of incidents of Bush looking stupid, why Moore has to fabricate things is really strange.) Since then I have not wanted to see any of Michael Moore's movies because they are complete fabrications. He's not a documentarian hes a propagandist.

He claims in "Sicko" for example the US should model itself after the Cuban system, then he criticizes the American Gov't for being run by idiots and is totally inefficient. My question is---if they are idiots and totally inefficient, why put them in charge of our health care? Seems like a really dumb idea!

 

[Valjean]

True, Troublemane. If you go to a public hospital's emergency room you will be seen, but you won't necessarily receive adequate care or referrals without insurance unless the problem is emergent. If you are impoverished Medicare may cover your visit. If not you will be billed.
Working and middle class patients can easily be driven to bankruptcy by medical bills but, on the bright side, once your family is living under a bridge you're eligable for Medicaid coverage. :help:

 

[Willamena]

I am envious, in the film, of the fellow from France, who got paid time off to go to the Riviera by their health care policy! I want to live in France.

 

[Father Heathen]

Yes it is - but even so - that one person even would be forced to have no treatment simply because they can't afford it is horrible!

Some of the conservatives here at RF have stated that these people are poor because they're stupid and lazy and thus don't deserve treatment.

 

[GadFly]

Remember the story of the ant and the grasshopper?
How about when the chickens come home to roost!
How about you reap what you sow.
I have health care. I worked, paid taxes, and everybody I know who does not have health care opted out of work, school, or failed to prepare for the future in the land of opportunity, not the land of handouts. There are a few who are innocent and left behind but there is not a case that I know of that are not provided for in some way by public health care. But it is time for the Liberals to make their appeal to Americans to join communism or socialism. Oh! The evils of capitalism.

 

[Yerda]

How about you reap what you sow.

How about a book on sociology or economics?

 

[heavyarms553]

Well, there are a number of things to take into consideration when you watch Michael Moore's documentary. I work in the medical field, and so I have some understanding on what is real and what is sensationalism. I'll break the OP down into parts and deal with them individually.

Americans use a very different pricing scheme when dealing with drugs than other countries. The pharmaceutical industry is huge in America, and competition is fierce. This, coupled with the strict FDA drug approval requirements, make developing new drugs extraordinarily costly. The result is that pharmaceutical companies charge an arm and a leg for drugs that they have a patent on. As soon as the patent expires, the other pharmaceutical companies pick up the slack and start producing generic brands at 1/100th of the price. Basically, Americans pay alot for new drugs, and much less than other countries for drugs that have been around for longer.

On a side note, I've seen cases of wonderful drugs that have gone down the drain due to purely financial reasons. A good example was the drug Huperzine. It was a powerful AChE inhibitor that had a great deal of promise for the treatment of early Alzheimers. It was originally isolated from a Chinese medicinal herb whose name I can't recall, but the details of the drug were published without any sort of patent protection. That meant that as soon as one company spent the 50 million or so dollars needed to pass it through safety trials, any company could produce it. The result was that no pharmaceutical company would touch the stuff because it was fiscally irresponsible, even though the drug showed a great deal of promise.

As for being turned away at the hospital because you lack health insurance... That is sort of true and sort of false. When someone walks into the emergency room, hospital staff are obligated to stabilize the patient and nothing else. As soon as the patient can walk they are sent on their way. No follow ups, no history, no supportive care. I can't tell you how many emergency room visits are unpayed, but I can tell you it is alot.

In my opinion, most of the money that is spent on health care goes right into the pockets of the insurance companies and the people who start unwarranted lawsuits against doctors. American healthcare should be nationalized imho, but that will never happen.

 

[GadFly]

How about a book on sociology or economics?

I have read my share and am all degreed up in that stuff; I am still not a liberal or a communist.

 

[heavyarms553]

You dont need to be a liberal or a communist to understand the principles of cyclical and frictional unemployment.

 

[Nanda]

Remember the story of the ant and the grasshopper?
How about when the chickens come home to roost!
How about you reap what you sow.
I have health care. I worked, paid taxes, and everybody I know who does not have health care opted out of work, school, or failed to prepare for the future in the land of opportunity, not the land of handouts. There are a few who are innocent and left behind but there is not a case that I know of that are not provided for in some way by public health care. But it is time for the Liberals to make their appeal to Americans to join communism or socialism. Oh! The evils of capitalism.

If you really haven't seen any examples of hard working, tax paying, driven people who can't afford health insurance, try talking to some small business owners. My husband and I make too much money to get any government assistance, but not enough to afford decent health insurance, and we work our butts off.

 

[GadFly]

You dont need to be a liberal or a communist to understand the principles of cyclical and frictional unemployment.

True, I agree.