I see your point. I am going to vote for the candidate that offers to give you and business people like you a tax reduction and affordable medical care. My testimony against socialism did not mean I support unfairness in how the government should take care of its citizens or that people should be allowed to suffer abuse at the hands of politicians. I believe capitalism is still the best way to approach your needs. So far, it has been the socialist that have constructed the unfairness in the tax system, in my opinion.
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I learned something terrible tonight
- Thread starter methylatedghosts
- Start date
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Don't forget people could lose their jobs when their employers go under, lose everything in a house fire, mothers could be widowed, soldiers disabled from combat injuries, etc, etc. You live in a cartoon world if you honestly think that everyone who has ever been in need was so simply because they were just stupid and/or lazy.
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
And then there's this:
Co-Payments for Expensive Drugs Soar - New York Times
With the new pricing system, insurers abandoned the traditional arrangement that has patients pay a fixed amount, like $10, $20 or $30 for a prescription, no matter what the drugs actual cost. Instead, they are charging patients a percentage of the cost of certain high-priced drugs, usually 20 to 33 percent, which can amount to thousands of dollars a month.
The system means that the burden of expensive health care can now affect insured people, too.
Co-Payments for Expensive Drugs Soar - New York Times
With the new pricing system, insurers abandoned the traditional arrangement that has patients pay a fixed amount, like $10, $20 or $30 for a prescription, no matter what the drugs actual cost. Instead, they are charging patients a percentage of the cost of certain high-priced drugs, usually 20 to 33 percent, which can amount to thousands of dollars a month.
The system means that the burden of expensive health care can now affect insured people, too.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
A correction is in order here, Methylatedghosts. Michel Moore is not a documentary film maker. He does NOT make documentaries. He does spin a predefined agenda rather well, however, but as other have said, it is what he leaves out, that is crucial.
If you really want to curl your hair rent a copy of Farenheit 9/11. THAT is a real piece of "work". For example, in Sicko, Mr. Moore, and I use the term Mr. loosely, he gives the audience the impression that the Canadian Heath Care system is free. Well, guess what. It isn't. We pay handsomely for it via our taxes. In the US, it is a user pay system, where in Canada, it is more like car insurance. You must have it to drive. Likewise, you cannot avoid paying for healthcare in Canada through Federal Income Taxes.
There is a small catch though. Provincially, the various provinces administer their own health plans. In British Columbia, I can "opt out " and let my PharmaCare lapse, but the downside is that if I do, and I require treatment, guess what? I pay through the nose.
Trust me, I had mine lapse once, several years ago. I got a nasty gash on my lip that required 5 stitches and was faced with a $500.00 bill when the dust settled. Obviously, I have been paid up since, lol. :cover:
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
ALL documentaries are biased. ALL show the viewpoint of the filmmaker. At least Moore is upfront about that. And even if he leaves things out, he shows us things that other people do not talk about. And yeah, didn't Moore win an Oscar for Farenheit 9/11?
Jeez Paul, of course it's not free - how can you rationally expect it to be free? You complain about taxes. And you complain when you're allowed to opt out and then realize that you need medical care. :areyoucra
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Um, no Sweet Cheeks, he did not.ALL documentaries are biased. ALL show the viewpoint of the filmmaker. At least Moore is upfront about that. And even if he leaves things out, he shows us things that other people do not talk about. And yeah, didn't Moore win an Oscar for Farenheit 9/11?
Wiki states:
The film debuted at the 2004 Cannes Film Festival in the documentary film category and was awarded the Palme d'Or (Golden Palm), the festival's highest award.
The film won additional awards after its release, such as the People's Choice Award for Favorite Motion Picture, an unprecedented honor for a documentary.
The film also won four Razzies, not for its lack of quality but rather as a "joke" about the "actors". George W. Bush won Worst Actor, Bush with either Rice or "his pet goat" won Worst Screen Couple, Donald Rumsfeld won Worst Supporting Actor, and Rice and Britney Spears were both nominated for Worst Supporting Actress, with Spears winning the award.
I wasn't aware I was complaining, Lilithu. If you read my statement, I said, Sicko, gives the impression that the Canadian Health Care System is free. I am not under any such illusions, nor would I expect health care to be free, lol. My examples of taxation and user fees are clear proof the Canadian system is not anything like how the "brilliant" Mr. Moore depicts it being.
NoahideHiker
Religious Headbanger
Moore does not have a very good track record of telling the whole truth. Here is what you didn't see from his movie about Cuban healthcare...
Hospital Clínico Quirúrgico
Hospital Clínico Quirúrgico
It's horrifying.
methylatedghosts
Can't brain. Has dumb.
Sure, take it all with a grain of salt. But what's terrible is that he was able to find even one person who had to choose between which finger he wanted. Or that he was able to find ONE person who had to stitch himself.
I didn't take that impression from it that it was free in Canada. But even still, while it's not free, Healthcare via taxes is much more affordable for the average Joe than via insurance companies who exist primarily to make a profit.
I think it should be everyone's priority to look after the person next to them. Do people realise that if everyone did that, you'd have 2 people looking after you and supporting you, rather than simply yourself?
I take this example from a movie I really enjoyed - 300. The phalanx works best when each man looks after the next. If you go simply looking after yourself, you're not going to last very long. Look after your neighbours! That's what I think the principal is behind national healthcare. Pay for it through your taxes. Cut out the profit gathering.
Anyway, I'll check in later some time and throw in some more of my thoughts.
I worked in the health care system in the USA for 6 years and I can tell you, that ain't the half of it, yeah they showed some highlights but they only scratched the surface of what goes on. Now the next documentary needs to be about the lawyers that drive the cost of health care so high in the USA and the people that take doctors to court over hang nails.
Booko
Deviled Hen
I have this to say about that:
Preexisting condition.
Hope you never have to deal with that.
Booko
Deviled Hen
How about the business decisions made to ensure that all men aren't bald and have stiffies, because you can make more money on that than you can actually treating serious diseases?
I worked at Upjohn when they came up with Minoxidil...I've seen how that works.
Oh, and how about hospitals deciding what doctors will have rights to practice based on how much profit they make for the hospital?
Why do I know about that? Oh, nothing special...just wrote the software that analyzed the data so the bean counters could axe the doctors that might be very good but would not *waste money* by ordering unnecessary tests.
I could go on for days on these subjects.
We treat healthcare with a totally screwed up business model and the result we have is entirely predicable. Healthcare is not a "business" where you want to sell more "widgets"...that model leads to high costs and little health, which is what we have.
Either you didn't read what I said or you misunderstood. I said "that ain't the half of it" I agree with everything you posted and I could write more on the topic filling many journals but I'm disgusted with the people and the system and now I work for one that almost works.
Booko
Deviled Hen
Or I just hit the first available quote button, which is what happens when it gets late.
Yerda
Veteran Member
I thought Booko's post followed an complemented your own quite nicely. You said "maybe it should be about such and such"....and Booko said, "yup, and add this to that".
No?
yossarian22
Resident Schizophrenic
If by "grain", you mean roughly 30 metric tons, then yes.
Moore's films are hideous mockeries of actual abortions. I find it amusing that he wails about propaganda and lies we are apparently fed, then turns around and spreads propaganda and lies from the opposite direction. His books are worse though. Think the total opposite of Bill O'Reilly
Dig deep enough, and you can find horror stories in every health care systems
wonder if anybody has ever analyzed how many companies would go under if we totally socialized health care. I figure that contracting the job out might work.
PureX
Veteran Member
If you'd like to learn how various successful health care systems work, see this: "Frontline: Sick Around The World"
heavyarms553
Member
Thats a wonderful link. Thanks for that.