So I'm weird, okay?
I label atheist, but maybe I'm a bit more of a naturalistic pantheist in attitude. In either case, I obviously don't believe in the supernatural nor claims of interventionist spirits; only spirits that interact with the minds on which they require to exist.
I like to interact with spirits like that. I like to do that whole "magic" and mystical thing. I really do. So someone I know at work invited me to a group that likes to do that thing too, or so I thought.
I'm totally fine with self-hypnosis, meditation and visualized realities with theists (all which they might interpret as magical in some supernaturalist way). I was a theist too at a point and so I understand their point of view and suspend my skepticism for the sake of the experience.
Until it gets to dangerous claims. I'm fine with readings or people trying to guess cards or whatever. But it has a bit' of a bent at times; the faith healing kind.
This is the one thing that enrages me, people die because of this. I can't stand it. Tonight they are having this speaker dude that is nothing short of a con artist who claims he can heal cancer and fix suicidal people. But I can't say anything openly against him and I don't know what to say or do without taking a big risk and burning any bridges.
If it was a concern about my own acceptance in the group this would be nonissue, but I feel very compelled to at least do or say something to mitigate the damage done. I'm not really good at convincing people to stop believing something, even if my arguments are solid I can't help but be a little merciless at times on an intellectual level and that just causes an emotional reaction when they see they don't have any ground to stand on (I can be really nice about it and they just react emotionally is what I mean).
What i need help with is... how do you get through to someone, is it even possible? What is the best approach to convincing any theist friends to give up a belief that is or could really hurt them?
I know that Neil Tyson spoke about approaching others with a sense of empathy for their worldview, but for the most part I don't know what I can say other than to sugar coat stuff but at the end they will still find anything I tell them to be threatening on some level because it's threatening the foundation of their worldview.
I guess for me, I got out of that fine with some philosophy and justification of the mystical experience as being as natural as the experience and expression of art but with more personal meaning or whatever (it goes a lot deeper into who we are as a species but that's a topic for another time).
I don't know if I can really communicate that well even if I could convince them that that is an alternative to keep their spirituality and sense of religion intact while forgoing supernaturalistic claims. Because the issue of faith healing isn't that it's harmful, but that you can't eliminate it without resorting to double think when it comes to supernaturalist claims. If spirits are real and exist and can influence things to the scale that many believe, then they can also influence health. Double think on the topic is better than believing the claims of faith healing, but some might not go for it.
I've already sent a message to my friend (who sadly attended) and told her I was really worried about her. And now I don't know what to say next, other than to try to approach it generally, speak in her theistic language and maybe fight magical thinking with magical thinking. But that general approach is all I got, I'd have to totally wing it and risk screwing it up. Even that all aside, the guy not being legit is going to be harmful to her spiritual health (that although not 'metaphysical' for a lack of a better word, is deeply tied to our emotional and mental health as a kind of extension of both so to speak) I don't know what to do. I just know I'm worried about a friend and by extension many others.
What should I do?
I label atheist, but maybe I'm a bit more of a naturalistic pantheist in attitude. In either case, I obviously don't believe in the supernatural nor claims of interventionist spirits; only spirits that interact with the minds on which they require to exist.
I like to interact with spirits like that. I like to do that whole "magic" and mystical thing. I really do. So someone I know at work invited me to a group that likes to do that thing too, or so I thought.
I'm totally fine with self-hypnosis, meditation and visualized realities with theists (all which they might interpret as magical in some supernaturalist way). I was a theist too at a point and so I understand their point of view and suspend my skepticism for the sake of the experience.
Until it gets to dangerous claims. I'm fine with readings or people trying to guess cards or whatever. But it has a bit' of a bent at times; the faith healing kind.
This is the one thing that enrages me, people die because of this. I can't stand it. Tonight they are having this speaker dude that is nothing short of a con artist who claims he can heal cancer and fix suicidal people. But I can't say anything openly against him and I don't know what to say or do without taking a big risk and burning any bridges.
If it was a concern about my own acceptance in the group this would be nonissue, but I feel very compelled to at least do or say something to mitigate the damage done. I'm not really good at convincing people to stop believing something, even if my arguments are solid I can't help but be a little merciless at times on an intellectual level and that just causes an emotional reaction when they see they don't have any ground to stand on (I can be really nice about it and they just react emotionally is what I mean).
What i need help with is... how do you get through to someone, is it even possible? What is the best approach to convincing any theist friends to give up a belief that is or could really hurt them?
I know that Neil Tyson spoke about approaching others with a sense of empathy for their worldview, but for the most part I don't know what I can say other than to sugar coat stuff but at the end they will still find anything I tell them to be threatening on some level because it's threatening the foundation of their worldview.
I guess for me, I got out of that fine with some philosophy and justification of the mystical experience as being as natural as the experience and expression of art but with more personal meaning or whatever (it goes a lot deeper into who we are as a species but that's a topic for another time).
I don't know if I can really communicate that well even if I could convince them that that is an alternative to keep their spirituality and sense of religion intact while forgoing supernaturalistic claims. Because the issue of faith healing isn't that it's harmful, but that you can't eliminate it without resorting to double think when it comes to supernaturalist claims. If spirits are real and exist and can influence things to the scale that many believe, then they can also influence health. Double think on the topic is better than believing the claims of faith healing, but some might not go for it.
I've already sent a message to my friend (who sadly attended) and told her I was really worried about her. And now I don't know what to say next, other than to try to approach it generally, speak in her theistic language and maybe fight magical thinking with magical thinking. But that general approach is all I got, I'd have to totally wing it and risk screwing it up. Even that all aside, the guy not being legit is going to be harmful to her spiritual health (that although not 'metaphysical' for a lack of a better word, is deeply tied to our emotional and mental health as a kind of extension of both so to speak) I don't know what to do. I just know I'm worried about a friend and by extension many others.
What should I do?
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Just means you're as normal as the rest of us mortals.