I really like wiccan ethical rules

[Starlight]

I really like wiccan ethical rules

The Threefold Law suggests that every action--whether beneficial or harmful--returns to the actor three times over.

And the Wiccan Rede state: An it harm none, do what you will

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

It sounds nice, but in observance it's not something that always happens, and it's usually used to gatekeep - even toward non-Wiccan Pagans. The number of times I've been told that taking aggressive action against an instigator is ill-advised because of the "three fold law".

 

[VoidCat]

It sounds nice, but in observance it's not something that always happens, and it's usually used to gatekeep - even toward non-Wiccan Pagans. The number of times I've been told that taking aggressive action against an instigator is ill-advised because of the "three fold law".

This is true. Some get onto me because I do baneful protection magick and have a bit of knowledge on hexing. But like...im not a Wiccan. My creed isn't the threefold law. It's They who cannot hex cannot heal.

 

[Quintessence]

I've come upon a number of scathing and well-articulated criticisms outlining the problems with the Rede and Threefold Law as ethical maxims. Tending to agree with those criticisms is one of the factors that drove me from Wicca when I was first studying contemporary Paganism.

That said, if you don't think too hard about these maxims, they have an elegance and beauty to them. It's effectively the Golden Rule, and when engaged in practice with a dose of common sense, it works well enough. Just don't think too hard about what harm is, who is and isn't covered in that none, and what exactly will means. Or about the laws of thermodynamics.

 

[VoidCat]

I've come upon a number of scathing and well-articulated criticisms outlining the problems with the Rede and Threefold Law as ethical maxims. Tending to agree with those criticisms is one of the factors that drove me from Wicca when I was first studying contemporary Paganism.

That said, if you don't think too hard about these maxims, they have an elegance and beauty to them. It's effectively the Golden Rule, and when engaged in practice with a dose of common sense, it works well enough. Just don't think too hard about what harm is, who is and isn't covered in that none, and what exactly will means. Or about the laws of thermodynamics.

I reckon it makes more sense if you think of it as a guideline of three planes rather than all in the physical realm. Like the harm that comes back to you is psychological as in you may feel guilt, physical because you used up your energy, and spiritual because when your body and mind is affected then the soul is affected?

Again I dont believe in the threefold law but that was the explanation of it that made the most sense. It's been a long time since i read the full explanation with that view.

Edited cuz I remembered how spiritually you'd be affected supposedly.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Some get onto me because I do baneful protection magick and have a bit of knowledge on hexing.

You should hear what I get because I know what a niðing pole is and how to implement one.

That said, if you don't think too hard about these maxims, they have an elegance and beauty to them. It's effectively the Golden Rule, and when engaged in practice with a dose of common sense, it works well enough.

Myself, I stick to Hávamál stanza 42:

"To his friend a man | a friend shall prove,
And gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking | with mockery answer,
And fraud with falsehood meet."

 

[VoidCat]

niðing pole

Been a while since i heard this term... Care to explain it a bit? Sounds familiar but my memory is lacking.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Been a while since i heard this term... Care to explain it a bit? Sound familiar but my memory is lacking.

It's essentially a curse pole meant to offend the person it's directed toward and, at worst, also offend the land spirits on the land they live on. It's a pole - usually topped with a horse or pig's head, but can also be an animal skull or even a crude carving - with written curses down the length. The most recent that one was prolifically used was in 2020, when a níðstang was put up in front of the Alþingi in Iceland, citing that the government had been mistreating and misrepresenting people (in particular lowering women's pay in hospitals) during the COVID pandemics. The pole turned that mistreatment back on Parliament.

 

[VoidCat]

It's essentially a curse pole meant to offend the person it's directed toward and, at worst, also offend the land spirits on the land they live on. It's a pole - usually topped with a horse or pig's head, but can also be an animal skull or even a crude carving - with written curses down the length. The most recent that one was prolifically used was in 2020, when a níðstang was put up in front of the Alþingi in Iceland, citing that the government had been mistreating and misrepresenting people (in particular lowering women's pay in hospitals) during the COVID pandemics. The pole turned that mistreatment back on Parliament.

Ah now I think i remember where I heard it from. A book but now i'm trying to remember which of the books I got it was from. I kinda remember the chapter and what the page was saying. I'll figure it out eventually hopefully. Thanks

 

[Quintessence]

I reckon it makes more sense if you think of it as a guideline of three planes rather than all in the physical realm. Like the harm that comes back to you is psychological as in you may feel guilt, physical because you used up your energy, and spiritual because when your body and mind is affected then the soul is affected?

Again I dont believe in the threefold law but that was the explanation of it that made the most sense. It's been a long time since i read the full explanation with that view.

Yes, I remember coming across that interpretation. It was not one of the more widely-presented ones, but perhaps the landscape has changed a bit. That presentation did make a great deal more sense to me too, but I still found it a bit overly... what word to put to it... I'm not a believer in "cosmic justice." The concept reminds me a bit of the once (still?) popular New Age trend called the "law of attraction." The idea is you attract into your life whatever you manifest in yourself, which has... it's intended to have positive messaging but if things really (and exclusively) work that way it also has some unsavory implications for people dealing with hardship.

In Druidry, we might interpret something like the Threefold Law with respect to nonlinear time: to consider how a present situation is rooted in the past and will be the legacy informing the future.

 

[Aštra’el]

The concept reminds me a bit of the once (still?) popular New Age trend called the "law of attraction." The idea is you attract into your life whatever you manifest in yourself, which has... it's intended to have positive messaging but if things really (and exclusively) work that way it also has some unsavory implications for people dealing with hardship.

I am reminded of Master Qui-Gon Jinn-
“Always remember: Your focus determines your reality.”

 

[VoidCat]

The concept reminds me a bit of the once (still?) popular New Age trend called the "law of attraction." The idea is you attract into your life whatever you manifest in yourself, which has... it's intended to have positive messaging but if things really (and exclusively) work that way it also has some unsavory implications for people dealing with hardship.

oof I just got a bad taste in my mouth that reminds me of Teal Swan talking of the law of attraction and saying that some women must've secretly wanted to be raped. I'm not saying all folk who believe in law of attraction agree with that but that's what I think of every time I hear folk talk of it.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

oof I just got a bad taste in my mouth that reminds me of Teal Swan talking of the law of attraction and saying that some women must've secretly wanted to be raped. I'm not saying all folk who believe in law of attraction agree with that but that's what I think of every time I hear folk talk of it.

How is someone [Swan] content enough with their search for spiritual understanding, to believe themselves in position to serve as spiritual guides, when reaching such disturbing conclusions?
It is most worrying, this.

Humbly,
Hermit

 

[syo]

every action--whether beneficial or harmful--returns to the actor three times over.

Nah. It returns precise.

An it harm none, do what you will

Haha! No way!

 

[VoidCat]

How is someone [Swan] content enough with their search for spiritual understanding, to believe themselves in position to serve as spiritual guides, when reaching such disturbing conclusions?
It is most worrying, this.

Humbly,
Hermit

I've heard folk say Teal Swan is a cult leader. I don't know if true. But she believes very messed up things.

 

[Viker]

I really like wiccan ethical rules

The Threefold Law suggests that every action--whether beneficial or harmful--returns to the actor three times over.

And the Wiccan Rede state: An it harm none, do what you will

I don't have any serious problem with Wiccan ethics but I don't entirely agree with the threefold law or their usage of karma.

I do see the Wiccan Rede as their spin on Crowley's 'Do what thou wilt' from Thelema. Still, it's an acceptable tenet.

 

[Ponder This]

I really like wiccan ethical rules

The Threefold Law suggests that every action--whether beneficial or harmful--returns to the actor three times over.

And the Wiccan Rede state: An it harm none, do what you will

Wait... hold on... in other words...
if you are willing to pay the price, it's all good? Your actions are Perfectly Ethical?
Did I miss something?

 

[Callisto]

It sounds nice, but in observance it's not something that always happens, and it's usually used to gatekeep - even toward non-Wiccan Pagans. The number of times I've been told that taking aggressive action against an instigator is ill-advised because of the "three fold law".

Gatekeeping in itself is not a bad thing, it's essential and everyone does it. Every religion, organization, and collective gatekeeps. They all establish rules, parameters, and conditions that make them recognizable as a specific thing and define what they are about and what's allowed. Which inevitably means they are all exclusionary in some way. Unfortunately, the problem with "Wicca" is that most of what is called Wicca is actually eclectic pagans who've chosen to call what they do "Wicca". Wicca, as it was founded, is not a mass religion, it has no laity; what most people see are practices that have been borrowed from it by people who don't understand the concepts to begin with and/or simply chose to make their own interpretations they then perpetuate as "fact".

Traditional Wicca is a religious order, priesthood and, to be blunt, it's not in the business of policing other beliefs and practices. Nor are the Rede or the Threefold ever hauled out and applied to others. In fact, this problem you cite is a tell-tale sign as to whether you're dealing with an actual Wiccan initiate or someone practicing "Wicca" they've learned from social media and books. Case in point, a Trad Wiccan wouldn't claim that aggressive action is prohibited by either one.

There are no commandments in Wicca and, among Trad Wiccans, the Rede and Threefold rarely come up. And most importantly, neither one is seen as being applicable to anyone who's not a Wiccan initiate so the chances of either being wielded like a cudgel against anyone is less than zero. Both, however, are given far more importance among Eclectics, most of whom are still carrying baggage from mainstream religion and feel the need for something akin to the Commandments.

 

[Callisto]

This is true. Some get onto me because I do baneful protection magick and have a bit of knowledge on hexing. But like...im not a Wiccan. My creed isn't the threefold law. It's They who cannot hex cannot heal.

I'm a Trad Wiccan. One of the first things we were taught in regard to magic(k) is "a witch who cannot hex, cannot heal." Replace "hex" with "hurt" and "witch" with "physician". Doctors learn what can poison, hurt, or kill in order to better identify and treat, which is what they use that knowledge for (99% of the time). You can't take care of a problem, magickal or medical, nor counter something baneful if you don't know what you're dealing with or know how to... Not much "good" comes from willful ignorance of how to take care of a situation.

 

[Callisto]

I don't have any serious problem with Wiccan ethics but I don't entirely agree with the threefold law or their usage of karma.

I do see the Wiccan Rede as their spin on Crowley's 'Do what thou wilt' from Thelema. Still, it's an acceptable tenet.

This article may be of interest to people here: Shocker: There Is No Universal Threefold Law In Wicca.