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I see no value in atheism

X

Xaxyx

Member
Curious George said:
But if we define by the term happy unhappy the same way theist and atheist are herein defined we get that the state of being neither happy or unhappy as being unhappy. That makes sense how?
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We don't define terms. The terms are already defined. Happiness is an emotion we can experience. Unhappiness is an emotion we can experience. Emotional states are not mutually exclusive; indeed, I'm quite confident that someone who was feeling happy about condition X and unhappy about condition Y at the same time could be physically demonstrated to be exhibiting said emotional states simultaneously via a brain scan.

Whereas, it is not possible for someone to be a theist and an atheist simultaneously. Thus is demonstrated the inherent inapplicability of such an analogy.
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Curious George said:
But if we define by the term happy unhappy the same way theist and atheist are herein defined we get that the state of being neither happy or unhappy as being unhappy. That makes sense how?
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As long as you are not happy, then you are not happy. You can be more than one emotion at once. The only requirement for not being happy is being unhappy. Just like "atheism", there are subcategories.
 
X

Xaxyx

Member
leibowde84 said:
As long as you are not happy, then you are not happy. You can be more than one emotion at once. The only requirement for not being happy is being unhappy. Just like "atheism", there are subcategories.
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Uh-oh. I was running with unhappy being equivalent to "sad", rather than simply "not happy". I don't want to contradict you as we tag-team George. Shall I defer?
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Xaxyx said:
Uh-oh. I was running with unhappy being equivalent to "sad", rather than simply "not happy". I don't want to contradict you as we tag-team George. Shall I defer?
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I feel like I am often unhappy, but haven't reached the point of sadness. More like meloncholy.
 
Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
leibowde84 said:
And the atheist ACTUALLY does not believe in God, which is not the same as actively believing that God does not exist. It can be, but not necessarily.
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The atheist actually does not believe in god. She doesn't shrug and not know, and she doesn't wonder.
 
X

Xaxyx

Member
leibowde84 said:
I feel like I am often unhappy, but haven't reached the point of sadness. More like melancholy.
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A common colloquialism, admittedly. Whereas, the dictionary definition of unhappy is "sad; miserable; wretched". Not trying to pick a fight; just looking to align my stance with yours, as our mutual goal is clarification.
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Willamena said:
The atheist actually does not believe in god. She doesn't shrug and not know, and she doesn't wonder.
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Why do you think that "not believing in God" would deny the possibility of not knowing either way? I think that is the erroneous part of your argument. There is lacking belief, then there is active belief that God does not exist.

For example, my Mom used to be a practicing Catholic. Until recently, she had been fairly observant, and she did not doubt God's existence. After having too many discussions with me, she now is a "weak atheist" (subcategory of "atheist", thus, still and "atheist"). She lost her belief in God, but she certainly doesn't believe that God does not exist. She is constantly going back and forth, searching for compelling evidence. By definition, though, she certainly "lacks belief in God" as she no longer believes in God. But, again, saying that she actively believes that God does not exist could not be further from the truth.

The phrase "not believing in God" merely means "lacking belief in God". It is completely passive. Believing that God does not exist, on the other hand, is active.
 
Curious George

Curious George

Veteran Member
Xaxyx said:
Whether or not any value is contributed by the definition is a purely subjective viewpoint. The word means what it means. I'm sure someone far more qualified than me could speak toward its etymology.

As repeatedly mentioned, for purposes of clarification, additional terms have been established to further distinguish between two categories of atheists: strong; and weak. That these aren't singular words is hardly meaningful or important, I daresay. Describing someone as a strong atheist is sufficient, it would seem to me, to separate that person from another fellow who happens to be a weak atheist.
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Lol was that an ad hominem in there ?
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Willamena said:
Because theism, and it's counterpart atheism, are about what people do believe.
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And, why do you think that, as that is contrary to the definition you provided from Oxford-English? I don't agree, but I am more than happy to consider your argument.
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Willamena said:
It's not contrary to the definition I provided at all.
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The definition of "atheist" from Oxford that you provided include those who merely "lack belief in God". You are saying that those who "lack belief in God", but do not actively believe that God does not exist, should not be included as "atheists", right?
 
Curious George

Curious George

Veteran Member
Xaxyx said:
We don't define terms. The terms are already defined. Happiness is an emotion we can experience. Unhappiness is an emotion we can experience. Emotional states are not mutually exclusive; indeed, I'm quite confident that someone who was feeling happy about condition X and unhappy about condition Y at the same time could be physically demonstrated to be exhibiting said emotional states simultaneously via a brain scan.

Whereas, it is not possible for someone to be a theist and an atheist simultaneously. Thus is demonstrated the inherent inapplicability of such an analogy.
Click to expand...
Unhappy about x and happy about y is not a contradiction. However contrasting feeling I'm the same thing is possible, we call that ambivalent. If people can feel contradictory why can't they believe contradictory? It seems you feel and believe contradictory statements already :)
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Curious George said:
Unhappy about x and happy about y is not a contradiction. However contrasting feeling I'm the same thing is possible, we call that ambivalent. If people can feel contradictory why can't they believe contradictory? It seems you feel and believe contradictory statements already :)
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How so?
 
Curious George

Curious George

Veteran Member
leibowde84 said:
As long as you are not happy, then you are not happy. You can be more than one emotion at once. The only requirement for not being happy is being unhappy. Just like "atheism", there are subcategories.
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Yes but if one can be neither happy nor unhappy and unhappy is defined by not happy then we get the contradiction that someone is unhappy and not unhappy.
 
X

Xaxyx

Member
Curious George said:
Unhappy about x and happy about y is not a contradiction. However contrasting feeling I'm the same thing is possible, we call that ambivalent. If people can feel contradictory why can't they believe contradictory? It seems you feel and believe contradictory statements already :)
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Because irrational emotion and rational logic do not both behave under the same rule set. It is possible for me to feel happy and sad simultaneously. It is not possible, not rational or reasonable, to both believe and not believe simultaneously that there is an elephant in my living room.

Can you do that? Can you both believe and not believe in the existence of the elephant in my living room, simultaneously?
 
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