McBell
Unbound
Thus explaining why a street map won't help..
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"I trust in Jesus for my salvation"
- Thread starter e.r.m.
- Start date
Thus explaining why a street map won't help..
InChrist
Free4ever
Is there anything Jesus said in particular about salvation you have in mind?
Yes, it won't get you there, although a map might help some people along the way if you mean a street map is people's dogma. I don't believe authoritative principles are all bad. I am sure there are a few good ones. People who follow their dogma to be saved are trusting in the map reader. I trust Yehoshua (Jesus). I think he did not make a map. Do you know a street map or route map won't work after an earthquake? Revelation 16:8 Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since mankind has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake.
Also, if the map brings you through the golf course during the storm, you will be hit.
So maps are not the wise way to go. But you know that.
Listen, my dear brothers and sisters: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? (James 2:5)erm said:
You said this in response to my post about Rev 3:14-18. Poverty in Judaism is not only about wealth, nor is it only about wealth in the NT. In Israel wealth comes from making wise choices, usually. Poverty comes from making stupid choices, usually. There are exceptions and ill fortune, but the poor are always present. A 'Poor' person tended to be looked down upon just as today. While Judaism's laws demanded that the poor be treated fairly, the laws were necessary because people tended not to treat them fairly. Even today when something is stolen its the poor people that the police frisk first, because poverty is associated with evil and stupidity. The wealthy have awesome opportunities and credit while the poor must be assisted and have no credit, are called 'Lower Class'. Oh yes, these people mentioned in Revelation 3:14-18 thought they were spiritual, but they were spiritually impoverished. The same thing can happen to any group that becomes smug.
Trusting in Jesus isn't the same as obeying him. The reason that church at large is a failure to this very day is that it doesn't obey him. He is galaxies away from us up in heaven, somewhere. He left us here with the holy spirit to guide us, but there are many people who claim that teachers and pastors must guide us using very exacting Biblical standards. John 3 goes against what those people say. John 3:18 is part of a dialogue between Jesus and Nicodemus about how discipleship is insufficient (baptism in water) or even ineffective, and that the holy spirit gives birth however it likes regardless of what we think that it ought to be doing according to our own experiences. This is the context in which I see John 3:18. The holy spirit could, for instance, give spiritual birth to a thief, to a New Age pot-smoking hipster and to a lying car-salesman all in the same hour. We would have no say in the matter.
It is the holy spirit that gives spiritual birth and not a series of doctrinal lessons, and we don't know where the spirit comes from or where it is going. If you would trust Jesus, then it would mean letting anyone partake of communion instead of excluding them on the basis of doctrinal differences. Naturally this kind of obedience is what shook the priests and leaders in Israel, because it made them extra-curricular. Naturally they were the ones who rejected Jesus. This is why Nicodemus was meeting Jesus in secret. How can you say to me that you believe in the rest of John 3 while at the same time tell my you are a member of CoC? I have heard that you practice exclusion in your communion, and John 3 is specifically against that practice.
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McBell
Unbound
Not if you rely completely on the map and refuse to use any other resource.
Roads change, terrain changes, so using a map from 1513 will be much different than using a current map.
InChrist
Free4ever
That is not a change, if as the scriptures portray, God's character includes love, mercy, and justice. At some point wickedness must be dealt with or God is not love if He allows it to continue forever.
You dare judge God?
I do not believe God is the destroyer. I suspect destruction comes through the agency of satan. Salvation is through Yehoshua Messiah.
InChrist
Free4ever
I don't consider it judging God, I just see and accept what I read in the scriptures. I certainly believe salvation comes through Y'shua Messiah, but also judgment. For He is coming, for He is coming to judge the earth. He shall judge the world with righteousness, And the peoples with His truth. Psalm 96:13
Who do you think brings about the judgments listed in Revelation? Are you saying satan does?
What judge that you ever heard of is also the executioner/destroyer?
A judge is she who decides a matter. It is sin that causes death, not judgement.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Nay.
Left to do so....the spirit will continue.
Is not the devil a sinner?
Still at the heel of Man.....last I heard.
At what will end his pursuit?.....his own nature?
The devil will concede his fault and fall upon his own sword?
Nay.
The judgment of heaven is prophesied against him.
His day is pending.
It is because they won't leave the broad way of destruction. I say they hang themselves. They say God hangs them. What do you say?
Thief
Rogue Theologian
It brings to mind the fate of Judas.
But many won't do so.
What they have been in this life, would carry on if not halted.
I believe heaven is guarded.
Angels carry sword.
kjw47
Well-Known Member
They need to listen to Jesus carefully to find the narrow gate. I believe one of the major reasons that FEW will find the road, is because FEW know Jesus or actually listen to him. It most certainly is not Gods fault--its there plain to see, one just needs to listen to Jesus' truths.
This chapter 7 you quote from in Matthew has some good truths, too, which I paraphrase: Verse 11 -- God gives to anyone who asks for wisdom Verse 15 -- False preachers pretend to be gentle leaders but they are vicious manipulators. Verse 18 -- a good tree will always bear good fruit (great, so you can trust good people) Verse 19 -- a bad tree can bear bad fruit (so don't trust just any preacher) Verse 20 -- You can tell who is false, because they hurt people. Verse 23 -- A lot of people think knowing Jesus is about names and saying the right things, but it isn't.kjw47 said:
Verse 6 -- probably has to do with not entrusting sacred things to people on the basis of anything other than their 'Fruit'. A pig likely refers to wealth and a dog probably refers to political savvy. Its a little hard to figure out the exact wording, but it is still helpful advice if it is placed into the surrounding context.
Verse 22 -- Very bad people can preach and do all kinds of good works in Jesus name, but they are still bad people who can hurt you or others badly. Goes with the theme.
