I want to understand...

[JesusFreaKMyHero1]

Why do some Catholics say that they are not Christian?

 

[rocala]

Why do some Catholics say that they are not Christian?

Hi, I presume you are referring to Roman Catholics?

 

[JesusFreaKMyHero1]

We should just love one another unconditionally

 

[Glaurung]

Why do some Catholics say that they are not Christian?

You have it backwards.

 

[Serenity Now]

Why do some Catholics say that they are not Christian?

All Catholics are Christians am I don't know of any cases where actual Catholics claim otherwise.

 

[kepha31]

There are Catholics who claim to be Catholic, but by ethnicity or family background. That is what they are, not what they believe. Comparing the best Protestants with the worst Catholics, and judging the whole Church because of them, is hardly fair.

"Christian is my name, and Catholic my surname. The one designates me, while the other makes me specific. Thus am I attested and set apart... When we are called Catholics it is by this appellation that our people are kept apart from any heretical name."
Saint Pacian of Barcelona, Letter to Sympronian, 375 A.D.

 

[Meander_Z]

It sounds like we're talking about Paper Catholics... that's not a real thing, just a way a former Catholic friend once described herself. She was technically Catholic because she had completed all of the necessary rituals in order to qualify as one, even though she no longer held the faith. She was certifiable... she had paper to prove she was Catholic, even if she wasn't.

I suppose that's just a side effect of being raised in a religion that puts such stress on the ritual aspects of spirituality. Her family took solace in knowing that she had her papers. They believed that she would go to heaven regardless of her beliefs because she had done all of the steps to ensure her salvation. I'm not sure that other Catholics would hold with this idea as sound theology... but then again don't they baptize babies because doing so ensures their salvation even before they are capable of belief?

 

[Glaurung]

Her family took solace in knowing that she had her papers. They believed that she would go to heaven regardless of her beliefs because she had done all of the steps to ensure her salvation. I'm not sure that other Catholics would hold with this idea as sound theology.

Certainly not. Baptism is irrevocable, but it doesn't ensure salvation in that sense. It only does so if it is followed up by persevering to the end.

but then again don't they baptize babies because doing so ensures their salvation even before they are capable of belief?

Baptism is regenerative in Catholicism. It is (under normative circumstances) required for salvation. A baptised person utterly free of personal sin (such as an infant) would be guaranteed salvation.

 

[kepha31]

It sounds like we're talking about Paper Catholics... that's not a real thing, just a way a former Catholic friend once described herself. She was technically Catholic because she had completed all of the necessary rituals in order to qualify as one, even though she no longer held the faith. She was certifiable... she had paper to prove she was Catholic, even if she wasn't.

I suppose that's just a side effect of being raised in a religion that puts such stress on the ritual aspects of spirituality. Her family took solace in knowing that she had her papers. They believed that she would go to heaven regardless of her beliefs because she had done all of the steps to ensure her salvation. I'm not sure that other Catholics would hold with this idea as sound theology... but then again don't they baptize babies because doing so ensures their salvation even before they are capable of belief?

To argue that Catholicism is untrue because it doesn't transform the lives of those who don't practice it, is like arguing that aspirin doesn't work because it doesn't relieve the headaches of those who don't take it.
How Can Catholicism be True When Catholics Seem so Dead?

Gen. 17:12, Lev. 12:3 - these texts show the circumcision of eight-day old babies as the way of entering into the Old Covenant -
Col 2:11-12 - however, baptism is the new "circumcision" for all people of the New Covenant. Therefore, baptism is for babies as well as adults. God did not make His new Covenant narrower than the old Covenant. To the contrary, He made it wider, for both Jews and Gentiles, infants and adults.

Mark 16:16 - Jesus says to the crowd, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved." But in reference to the same people, Jesus immediately follows with "He who does not believe will be condemned." This demonstrates that one can be baptized and still not be a believer. This disproves the Protestant argument that one must be a believer to be baptized. There is nothing in the Bible about a "believer's baptism."

Acts 2:38 - Peter says to the multitude, "Repent and be baptized.." Protestants use this verse to prove one must be a believer (not an infant) to be baptized. But the Greek translation literally says, "If you repent, then each one who is a part of you and yours must each be baptized” (“Metanoesate kai bapistheto hekastos hymon.”) This, contrary to what Protestants argue, actually proves that babies are baptized based on their parents’ faith. This is confirmed in the next verse.

Acts 2:39 - Peter then says baptism is specifically given to children as well as adults. “Those far off” refers to those who were at their “homes” (primarily infants and children). God's covenant family includes children. The word "children" that Peter used comes from the Greek word "teknon" which also includes infants.

Luke 1:59 - this proves that "teknon" includes infants. Here, John as a "teknon" (infant) was circumcised. See also Acts 21:21 which uses “teknon” for eight-day old babies. So baptism is for infants as well as adults.

Acts 10:47-48 - Peter baptized the entire house of Cornelius, which generally included infants and young children. There is not one word in Scripture about baptism being limited to adults.

Acts 16:30-33 - it was only the adults who were candidates for baptism that had to profess a belief in Jesus. This is consistent with the Church's practice of instructing catechumens before baptism. But this verse does not support a "believer's baptism" requirement for everyone. See Acts 16:15,33. The earlier one comes to baptism, the better. For those who come to baptism as adults, the Church has always required them to profess their belief in Christ. For babies who come to baptism, the Church has always required the parents to profess the belief in Christ on behalf of the baby. But there is nothing in the Scriptures about a requirement for ALL baptism candidates to profess their own belief in Christ (because the Church has baptized babies for 2,000 years).
http://scripturecatholic.com/baptism.html#baptism-III

 

[ZooGirl02]

Catholics should never say that they aren't Christian. Catholics most certainly are Christian. We, as Catholics, are members of the original Christian Church founded by Jesus Christ.

That said, I think that Catholics may sometimes say that they are not Christian because they are using the word "Christian" as meaning non-Catholics such as Protestants.

 

[pearl]

As far back as the early 3rd century, Hippolytus lays out the church order for baptism. The candidate had to be introduced to the representatives of the Church by someone who was a Christian, "And let them be examined as to the reason why they have come forward to the faith. And those who bring them shall bear witness for them, let their life and manner of living be inquired into." The Catechumenate was three years at the end of which the candidate was examined, not only for knowledge but of their conduct as to Christian ideals.
"At the hour when the cock crows they shall first pray over pray over the water. And they shall put off their clothes. And they shall baptize the little children first. And if they can answer for themselves, let them answer. But if they cannot, let their parents answer or someone from their family.

Infant baptism does not complete the requirements of initiation into the Roman Catholic Church. Initiation in not completed until Confirmation.