"I was thirsty, and you gave me water"

[DallasApple]

Sadly that is what a lot of people in this country are severely lacking. Instead we have this "Screw you, I got mine" mentality that seems to be more popular than ever.

I dont know..Dont let them get you down..Don't let them make you believe its that way or you will be sad and believe it and have a hard heart.

You have to belive its otherwise starting with you and there are others like you.Or it will get too depressing.(and you will hide under the bed to avoid them)

Love

Dallas

 

[Zephyr]

Back from like page 2 or something, but...

Because crossing the border illegally is wrong.

Why is it wrong though?

 

[Poisonshady313]

Back from like page 2 or something, but...


Why is it wrong though?

Do I really need to explain to you why doing something that is illegal is wrong?

 

[J Bryson]

Do I really need to explain to you why doing something that is illegal is wrong?

Does illegal always equal wrong?

 

[Nepenthe]

Does illegal always equal wrong?

Exactly.
And as history has shown, illegal has often equalled immoral and unethical. Sometimes it's necessary to actively go against what's illegal and change it.

I'm not going to argue the abolition of border laws (that'd be a whole 'nother thread) but my overly simplistic point is that what's considered illegal has often required a reinterpretation.

 

[Falvlun]

Which will not scare people away from crossing, but will make them suspicious of jugs of water that they run across. Hurts more than it helps.

If people are dying of thirst, but choose not to drink the water because they are afraid they might be caught doing something illegal, I do not think it is the border patrol's, or anyone else's fault but their own if they do die.

The point isn't to make illegally crossing the border easy....

If I KNEW that illegalls were in (my back yard) and they were dying over something as BASIC as water I would give them water.

I would give them water too... and then I would call immigration or the police.

 

[J Bryson]

The point isn't to make illegally crossing the border easy....

No, the point is that the punishment shouldn't be a painful death by dehydration.

 

[Nepenthe]

If people are dying of thirst, but choose not to drink the water because they are afraid they might be caught doing something illegal, I do not think it is the border patrol's, or anyone else's fault but their own if they do die.

The point isn't to make illegally crossing the border easy...

Let's say I agree with you (I don't but let's say I do), it's not an issue of making it easy but of alleviating suffering and potential death for a dangerous, and yes, illegal, act. It is the Border Patrol's fault if they withheld water for a person who clearly needs it or they will die.
If someone trespassed on my property to get to the hills behind my house and fell and hurt themselves, I'd have a moral obligation to help stop the bleeding or call an ambulance or whatever even though they were committing a crime. Sure, arrest them or deport them or whatever after the fact, but if the person is in need there and then I have an obligation to offer help despite the legality of their actions.

 

[Poisonshady313]

No, the point is that the punishment shouldn't be a painful death by dehydration.

Nobody is dehydrating them but themselves. Nobody is punishing them but themselves.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Exactly.
And as history has shown, illegal has often equalled immoral and unethical. Sometimes it's necessary to actively go against what's illegal and change it.

I'm not going to argue the abolition of border laws (that'd be a whole 'nother thread)

Then why even bring it up?

Either the border laws should be enforced, or there should be no border laws. Which is it?

 

[Falvlun]

No, the point is that the punishment shouldn't be a painful death by dehydration.

Let's say I agree with you (I don't but let's say I do), it's not an issue of making it easy but of alleviating suffering and potential death for a dangerous, and yes, illegal, act. It is the Border Patrol's fault if they withheld water for a person who clearly needs it or they will die.
If someone trespassed on my property to get to the hills behind my house and fell and hurt themselves, I'd have a moral obligation to help stop the bleeding or call an ambulance or whatever even though they were committing a crime. Sure, arrest them or deport them or whatever after the fact, but if the person is in need there and then I have an obligation to offer help despite the legality of their actions.

In my scenario, when exactly does the border patrol with-hold water from a person dying of thirst? If a dehydated immigrant sees a border patrol holding a bottle of water in the distance, with a bit sign that says "Free Water", and the immigrant, knwing that it is the border patrol, chooses not to partake of that water, then his death is due to his own actions.

A rather apt saying comes to mind: "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink!"

 

[Mister_T]

Does illegal always equal wrong?

It was illegal for black people to sit in the front of buses at one point.....guess Rosa Parks was wrong for being a dirty lawbreaker.

 

[J Bryson]

My point--which seems to be lost in any number of hypothetical scenarios--is that as he was not assisting the crossers in escaping the border patrol, was not smuggling them, and instead was attempting to ensure their survival regardless of the legality or illegality of their actions, he should be applauded as a humanitarian rather than prosecuted as a criminal.

 

[3.14]

its mean they finaly have a good way to stave of illigals without being immoral( by just letting them die at there own hand, )
and now some dogooders help them survive, forcing them to punish them to prevent them from spoiling the situation.


to bad about the landmine treaty els they could have just placed mines 1 meter apart and just wait till one blows up

 

[Falvlun]

My point--which seems to be lost in any number of hypothetical scenarios--is that as he was not assisting the crossers in escaping the border patrol, was not smuggling them, and instead was attempting to ensure their survival regardless of the legality or illegality of their actions, he should be applauded as a humanitarian rather than prosecuted as a criminal.

He was aiding an illegal activity, and as such, yes, I do believe he should be punished for it.

The immigrants are engaging in risky, illegal behavior. The onus is upon them to accept the risk and to prepare themselves to face it. If you do not want to die of dehydration, then don't illegally cross the desert. If you are willing to accept this risk in your desire to enter this country, then godspeed. But I do not believe that there is any moral mandate that says that we must aid these people who knowingly engage in these risky behaviors.

 

[J Bryson]

He was aiding an illegal activity, and as such, yes, I do believe he should be punished for it.

The immigrants are engaging in risky, illegal behavior. The onus is upon them to accept the risk and to prepare themselves to face it. If you do not want to die of dehydration, then don't illegally cross the desert. If you are willing to accept this risk in your desire to enter this country, then godspeed. But I do not believe that there is any moral mandate that says that we must aid these people who knowingly engage in these risky behaviors.

But you would argue that there is a moral mandate to punish those who attempt to provide them with water to keep them from dying?

 

[3.14]

no its more like giving a bank robber a car after he robbed a bank,

if they were there acidentaly and they sudenly saw a illigal imigrant and gave him water they would have been right but they intentionaly placed water there

 

[Nepenthe]

Then why even bring it up?

Either the border laws should be enforced, or there should be no border laws. Which is it?

I mention it because it was relevant to my post. I'd like to see border laws done away with bit that has nothing to do with the thread.
You missed the point- the existence of border laws are completely independent from the issue of aiding someone crossing the border illegally.

 

[Falvlun]

But you would argue that there is a moral mandate to punish those who attempt to provide them with water to keep them from dying?

No, not a moral mandate. A legal one.

To repeat, I agree that we should give water to those who need water. I just believe that we should then escort them back across the border.

 

[J Bryson]

No, not a moral mandate. A legal one.

To repeat, I agree that we should give water to those who need water. I just believe that we should then escort them back across the border.

I'm sure that the Border Patrol does eventually give water to the people they capture before deportation. However, not everyone runs across las migras, and I see it as an act of basic human compassion to ensure that they don't die a painful death.