Ian Stevenson and his studies on reincarnation.

[George-ananda]

While I do not believe in full reincarnation (I believe in something more akin to Buddhist rebirth),

I have asked a lot of people on RF to explain what Buddhist Rebirth is. They might cut and paste something for me but when I asked the what that means in plain-speak they never reply back.

Hinduism describes a mechanism, which I've been discussing in this thread, by which children could remember past lives through an always evolving and non-permanent soul that takes physical bodies many times. But I can't make sense of the Buddhist mechanism by which this could happen.

Unless someone can explain to me otherwise, I've come to believe Hindu Reincarnation = Buddhist Rebirth. I think confusion comes into people's minds because Buddha taught anatta (no permanent soul/self). But this concept is also understood in higher philosophical schools of Hinduism where even this soul is not permanent (although it may exist for many lifetimes until liberation/moksha/nirvana).

 

[StarryNightshade]

I have asked a lot of people on RF to explain what Buddhist Rebirth is. They might cut and paste something for me but when I asked the what that means in plain-speak they never reply back.

Reincarnation= soul transferring from one body to another.

Rebirth= consciousness transferring from one body to another or ones karma manifesting into another physical form. This is extremely simplified and not all Buddhists agree on what rebirth actually is or even believe in literal rebirth.

 

[George-ananda]

Reincarnation= soul transferring from one body to another.

Rebirth= consciousness transferring from one body to another or ones karma manifesting into another physical form. This is extremely simplified and not all Buddhists agree on what rebirth actually is or even believe in literal rebirth.

Thanks.

Any idea how consciousness can transfer from one body to another years later? Where does it go in-between? Any idea on the mechanism? And in the case of detail memory transfer like in childhood memories?

I realize I'm not asking easy questions and maybe the answer is you don't know. If so, no problem.

I'm still thinking Hindu Reincarnation = Buddhist Rebirth

 

[StarryNightshade]

Thanks.

Any idea how consciousness can transfer from one body to another years later? Where does it go in-between? Any idea on the mechanism? And in the case of detail memory transfer like in childhood memories?

I realize I'm not asking easy questions and maybe the answer is you don't know. If so, no problem.

I'm still thinking Hindu Reincarnation = Buddhist Rebirth

I honestly don't know. I believe in it, because of the fact that consciousness is one of the few things about the human body that we absolutely don't know how it functions. Sure, one can say that the it is only a material by-product of the brain; and while it appears to be controlled by the brain, that by no means that consciousness only exists because of the brain.

Scientific? Of course not, but that is my understanding of such a complex aspect of our existence.

 

[ruffen]

What would a real-world childhood reincarnation memory have to look like before you would even consider it evidence?

My point is, as children don't live in scientifically controlled environments, you can always say there's 'no evidence' if that's your inclination.

Personally, my conclusion is that this evidence (when seen in conjunction with multiple other types of phenomena and the teachings of people I personally respect) is strongly suggestive of reincarnation.

Well, probably no anecdotal evidence will ever be enough. No matter how many claim to have seen Zeus, or that six-armed elephant god, or the virgin mary or UFO's or reincarnation, it will never alone be enough with just stories.

If there's one thing the world's big religions have thaugt us, it is that the answer to the question "can so many people be wrong?" is a resounding "YES!".

 

[George-ananda]

Well, probably no anecdotal evidence will ever be enough. No matter how many claim to have seen Zeus, or that six-armed elephant god, or the virgin mary or UFO's or reincarnation, it will never alone be enough with just stories.

If there's one thing the world's big religions have thaugt us, it is that the answer to the question "can so many people be wrong?" is a resounding "YES!".

What if multiple people you trust all describe seeing the same apparition that faded away. I know from above you wouldn't accept it. But how DOES your mind deal with that.

 

[outhouse]

What if multiple people you trust all describe seeing the same apparition that faded away. I know from above you wouldn't accept it. But how DOES your mind deal with that.

That is a common occurance.

It doesnt give the sighting credibility that what is described, is what it is.

 

[George-ananda]

That is a common occurance.

It doesnt give the sighting credibility that what is described, is what it is.

I had said 'I know you wouldn't give it credibility'. My question was 'what would you think happened'?

 

[outhouse]

I had said 'I know you wouldn't give it credibility'. My question was 'what would you think happened'?

Mass hysteria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

this is one explanation, even tied to physical evidence of mass illness

 

[outhouse]

and this

Mass hallucination - Psychology Wiki

A mass hallucination is a phenomenon in which a large group of people, usually in physical proximity to each other, all experience the same hallucination simultaneously. Mass hallucination is a common explanation for mass UFO sightings, appearances of the Virgin Mary, and other paranormal phenomena.
In most cases, mass hallucination refers to a combination of suggestion and pareidolia, wherein one person will see, or pretend to see, something unusual (like the face of Jesus in the burn-marks on a tortilla, or the face of a kidnapped girl on a blank billboard) and point it out to other people. Having been told what to look for, those other people will consciously or unconsciously convince themselves to recognize the apparition, and will in turn point it out to others.

 

[George-ananda]

Mass hysteria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

this is one explanation, even tied to physical evidence of mass illness

I've heard that explanation criticized before but that's not where I want to go with this post.

As has been known in ghost phenomena, what if multiple people INDEPENDENTLY (and unknown to each other) report the same apparition.

 

[outhouse]

I've heard that explanation criticized before but that's not where I want to go with this post.

As has been known in ghost phenomena, what if multiple people INDEPENDENTLY (and unknown to each other) report the same apparition.

I can back this with my own investigations. But it doesnt mean anything. Surely doesnt indicate spirit or soul.

Lived in a area over 40 years and had different reports from different people who didnt know each other that reported a similar ghost around this one group of houses.

But it doesnt mean jack. One lady said I ran right through a poltergiest and I didnt see anything as she was screaming hysterically on the floor.

Others reported a lumberjack looking guy with sad expressions.

I have never seen anything.

 

[George-ananda]

I can back this with my own investigations. But it doesnt mean anything. Surely doesnt indicate spirit or soul.

Lived in a area over 40 years and had different reports from different people who didnt know each other that reported a similar ghost around this one group of houses.

But it doesnt mean jack. One lady said I ran right through a poltergiest and I didnt see anything as she was screaming hysterically on the floor.

Others reported a lumberjack looking guy with sad expressions.

I have never seen anything.

Interesting.

But that takes us back to my original question.

We know what you don't believe (that it's spirits or ghosts)

But the question: What do you think really happened?

 

[ruffen]

What if multiple people you trust all describe seeing the same apparition that faded away. I know from above you wouldn't accept it. But how DOES your mind deal with that.

Even if I saw it myself, I would probably check any meds I had taken or wonder if that slightly funny-tasting meat the day before might have been bad.

Of course if I myself saw something truly spectacular that seemed very real, I might start believing in it, but that wouldn't necessarily be the logical rational thing to do. And still I would question myself, my senses and my perception.

There are people all over the world who have seen the most incredible things, and one cannot believe in them all just because many people claim to have seen something.

 

[George-ananda]

Even if I saw it myself, I would probably check any meds I had taken or wonder if that slightly funny-tasting meat the day before might have been bad.

Of course if I myself saw something truly spectacular that seemed very real, I might start believing in it, but that wouldn't necessarily be the logical rational thing to do. And still I would question myself, my senses and my perception.

There are people all over the world who have seen the most incredible things, and one cannot believe in them all just because many people claim to have seen something.

But what about that question I asked Outhouse. He, although being an atheist, described a case where multiple people INDEPENDENTLY (unknown to each other) reported the same apparition. The bad meat theory can't work here.

We know what you don't believe (ghosts, spirits). But what DO you believe happened??

 

[George-ananda]

Of course if I myself saw something truly spectacular that seemed very real, I might start believing in it, but that wouldn't necessarily be the logical rational thing to do.

Why do you consider many people's beliefs (that things exist that can't be explained in our modern scientific paradigm) irrational? That belief seems rational to me.

 

[Sculelos]

Once I woke up and seen a swirling mass of dust in my room but when I tried to touch it my hand went through it like it wasn't even there.

I think there is simply more to how light works then we are led to believe as mirages can happen anytime and anyplace if the right conditions are present.

A few day's ago I seen a bright blue light enter my room and it got bigger and bigger and bigger until it covered almost the entire ceiling and then it faded out and was gone.

Some Years ago I seen another planet in the Sky that resembled the Sun and it was flaming and had several other planet like object following it in it's tail and I remember watching it for about 2-3 minutes until it went too far West and I could no longer see it. (It may have been Halley's Comet as that's what it strongly resembled)

https://www.google.com/search?q=Hal...a=N&tab=wi&ei=WbbuUazNK6iQigLW4YCYAw#imgdii=_

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Once I woke up and seen a swirling mass of dust in my room but when I tried to touch it my hand went through it like it wasn't even there.

I think there is simply more to how light works then we are led to believe as mirages can happen anytime and anyplace if the right conditions are present.

A few day's ago I seen a bright blue light enter my room and it got bigger and bigger and bigger until it covered almost the entire ceiling and then it faded out and was gone.

Some Years ago I seen another planet in the Sky that resembled the Sun and it was flaming and had several other planet like object following it in it's tail and I remember watching it for about 2-3 minutes until it went too far West and I could no longer see it. (It may have been Halley's Comet as that's what it strongly resembled)

https://www.google.com/search?q=Hal...a=N&tab=wi&ei=WbbuUazNK6iQigLW4YCYAw#imgdii=_

Amazingly, this is no less cogent or sensical than reincarnation.

 

[Sculelos]

Amazingly, this is no less cogent or sensical than reincarnation.

It's beneficially proven that Humans can and do suffer from mass delusions. It's proven that light can take on the appearance of that which is not. It is scientifically proven that plants, animals, humans and planets send out radio waves from their brain that other people with high empathy can absorb and have later vivid memories in the form of dreams and visions however sometimes what comes out is dreams stranger then what the human mind is able to rationalize.

What is not and can't be proven is the idea of Reincarnation as it's a spiritual concept and not a physical concept. Spiritual concepts can only be proven in a spiritual reality and physical concepts can only be proven in a physical reality, physical concepts have no use in a spiritual reality unless both are inter-weaved together by natural laws.

I could for example say that your involuntary actions are controlled by the mighty angel Rafiel and you could not disprove me. Perhaps you might find the mechanism for how the Angel controls you involentary actions and perhaps you might not even believe that the Angel controls them even though Angel simply means "Spreading, Pulsing, Inward, Physical, Energy Source" and Rafiel means "Controlling the pathways and spread and movement of the physical energy inside".

You could ask me how I know these things and I would tell you that 'They' tell me of course you might not believe in 'The c-c-Consciousness' but that doesn't mean that it's not there.

The Human body is most strange in that we not only store memories inside of our nervous system but we also store them in physical objects and our brain actually doesn't store any memories in and of itself at all but is simply a device for retrieving them.

My point with all this rambling is that from a Scientific perspective you can't prove spiritual matters in a physical realm and since Science dismissed the Spiritual realm as Physical they will never see Spiritual matters in a Physical reality but differ it to unknown physical phenomenon.

 

[ruffen]

Once I woke up and seen a swirling mass of dust in my room but when I tried to touch it my hand went through it like it wasn't even there.

I think there is simply more to how light works then we are led to believe as mirages can happen anytime and anyplace if the right conditions are present.

A few day's ago I seen a bright blue light enter my room and it got bigger and bigger and bigger until it covered almost the entire ceiling and then it faded out and was gone.

Some Years ago I seen another planet in the Sky that resembled the Sun and it was flaming and had several other planet like object following it in it's tail and I remember watching it for about 2-3 minutes until it went too far West and I could no longer see it. (It may have been Halley's Comet as that's what it strongly resembled)

https://www.google.com/search?q=Hal...a=N&tab=wi&ei=WbbuUazNK6iQigLW4YCYAw#imgdii=_

Do you live near a rocket launch site?