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ibn Taimya

i hope i had spelled it in the right way

i had a conversation with a Muslim friend about the terrorism actions against Paris in the last days, so i wondered that i found him not condemning what happened as he said they did what ibn taimya told, he continued ibn taimya is author of a book "i actually not remember the name exactly, but i think it's the sword against the prophet mockers" and ibn taimya as my friend claimed said that the mocker of the prophet must be killed even if he repents and even if he converts to islam !!

i'm not familiar about the Islamic law, but what i know while reading about the conquest of mecca i read that the prophet had pardoned all the people of mecca even those who mocked, harmed him before his migration

so i'd like to know did ibn Taimya really claim that? and what was his proofs to kill the mockers?
 

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
.........................
i'm not familiar about the Islamic law, but what i know while reading about the conquest of mecca i read that the prophet had pardoned all the people of mecca even those who mocked, harmed him before his migration.................


Peace be on you. That is it. You have the Light. Leave the others who say otherwise.

Who know Ibne Timia actually wrote it or someone latter added to his works. Reportedly Ucama bn Laden used his socalled fatwa too.

Life is short and precious, come to true revival.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Abu Lahab mocked the prophet and that wasn't a reason to kill him but God sent a verse which says that Abu Lahab won't be guided to Islam and should die as an atheist.

 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I don't think some normal French Muslims could pull something sophisticated like that attack and run away easily. This action was executed by pros. A witness is now saying that one of the attackers had blue eyes but none of those suspected had blue eyes. Since they have been killed so we won't be able to hear from those suspected anyway.
 
I don't think some normal French Muslims could pull something sophisticated like that attack and run away easily. This action was executed by pros. A witness is now saying that one of the attackers had blue eyes but none of those suspected had blue eyes. Since they have been killed so we won't be able to hear from those suspected anyway.

so you think it's an intelligence work? may the killers were wearing blue lenses !
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind

Shia Islam

Quran and Ahlul-Bayt a.s.
Premium Member
Wahabi Salafi school which depends on people like Ibn Taimiya and Muhammed Ibn Abdulwahab preach Takfir and violence.

The Wahhabi movement started in similar way as ISIL.

Al those criminal gang group are of Wahhabi ideology ...Including Taliban, al qaeda, ISIL, bokoharam, al Nusra from, and many other similar groups in Syria, n africa, pakistan and everywhere..

The Sunnis must call things as they are...They must not keep silent or stand with these groups. otherwise they are part of the crime perpetrators.
 
Al those criminal gang group are of Wahhabi ideology ...Including Taliban, al qaeda, ISIL, bokoharam, al Nusra from, and many other similar groups in Syria, n africa, pakistan and everywhere..
.

The Taliban aren't Wahhabi. Deobandi/Pashtun tribalism.
 

Ageha

Member
and ibn taimya as my friend claimed said that the mocker of the prophet must be killed even if he repents and even if he converts to islam !!
Not correct, killing any one who insulate Mohammed PBUH is a law that existed way before ibn taymya, no renaowned muslim scholar had a different opinion, and that includes the Shai'a scholars.
 

Ageha

Member
Wahabi Salafi school which depends on people like Ibn Taimiya and Muhammed Ibn Abdulwahab preach Takfir and violence.

The Sunnis must call things as they are...They must not keep silent or stand with these groups. otherwise they are part of the crime perpetrators.
Hypocrisy, your signature says: اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد وعجل فرجهم والعن أعدائهم
"God pray upon Mohamed and his family.. fasten their salvation and curse their enemies"
People here can't read Arabic but I can, don't know the shia tradition but I do, the shias would kill anyone who inslutes Ali or Fatiam, need not to say they consider them kuffars, and myself too since I am Sunni.. don't "promote" to what you believe by lies.
 

Shia Islam

Quran and Ahlul-Bayt a.s.
Premium Member
Hypocrisy, your signature says: اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد وعجل فرجهم والعن أعدائهم
"God pray upon Mohamed and his family.. fasten their salvation and curse their enemies"
People here can't read Arabic but I can, don't know the shia tradition but I do, the shias would kill anyone who inslutes Ali or Fatiam, need not to say they consider them kuffars, and myself too since I am Sunni.. don't "promote" to what you believe by lies.

It's clear that you don't know even Sunni Islam rather than Shia Islam.

We consider Sunnis to be our brothers in religion. you can open the Fatwa books of the Shia clerics and you will find that Sunnis are Muslims and mixed marriage between Shiites and Sunnis is permissible.

Also, just note that Iran holds the Islamic unity conference every year, in order to bring the Shiites and the Sunnis closer to each other.

As of the Nasibis, i.e. the hater of AhlulBayt a.s. both the Shiites and Sunnis consider them to be non-Muslim.
 

Ageha

Member
To end this, here's some Sunni scholars who said that the insulter must be killed before Ibn Taymya, anyone can check the dates of their death and compere to see if Ibn taymya was really the first.. and I'll also quota some of the Shia fatwas that says the same thing.. but before I start, this issue is very clear in the Islamic feqh.. if the prophet was alive it's up to him to kill him or leave, and he did killed كعب بن الاشرف ka'ab ibn al ashraf for that, but after his death the insulter MUST be killed, so clear it can be found at ANY feqah book.. the reason why I am posting this is because people deserve the truth, muslims or not.. delivering misleading information for people who can't reach the original texts is wrong.
A- Sunni Scholars:
1- ابو حنيفة Ibu Hanifah
2- الشافعي al shafie
3-ابن عباس Ibn abas
4- ahmed ibn hanbel احمد بن حنبل
..
.. etc, translete this for more informationes and names:
الثًَا : إجماع الأمة على كفر وقتل من تنقص من النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم :
قال شيخ الإسلام ابن تيمية : من سب النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم من مسلم أو كافر فإنه يجب قتله ، هذا مذهب عليه عامة أهل العلم .
قال ابن المنذر : أجمع عوام أهل العلم على أن حد من سب النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم القتل ، وممن قاله مالك والليث وأحمد وإسحاق ، وهو مذهب الشافعي .
وحكى أبو بكر الفارسي إجماع المسلمين على أن حد من سب النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم القتل ، وهذا الإجماع الذي حكاه محمول على إجماع الصدر الأول من الصحابة والتابعين .
وقال إسحاق بن راهويه أحد الأئمة الأعلام : أجمع المسلمون على أن من سب الله أو سب رسوله صلى الله عليه وسلم ، أو دفع شيئًا مما أنزل الله عز وجل أو قتل نبيًا من أنبياء الله عز وجل : أنه كافر بذلك ، وإن كان مقرًا بكل ما أنزل الله .
قال الخطابي : لا أعلم أحدًا من المسلمين اختلف في وجوب قتله .
وقال محمد بن سحنون : أجمع العلماء على أن شاتم النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ، والمتنقص له كافر ، والوعيد جاء عليه بعذاب الله له وحكمه عند الأمة القتل ، ومن شك في كفره وعذابه كفر .
قال الإمام أحمد بن حنبل : كل من شتم النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ، أو تنقصه ، مسلمًا كان أو كافرًا فعليه القتل ، وأرى أن يقتل ولا يستتاب .
وقال أيضًا : كل من نقض العهد وأحدث في الإسلام حدثًا مثل هذا رأيت عليه القتل ، ليس على هذا أعطوا العهد والذمة .
وقال أبو الصفراء : سألت أبا عبدالله على رجل من أهل الذمة شتم النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ، ماذا عليه ؟ قال : إذا قامت البينة عليه ، يقتل من سب النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ، مسلمًا كان أو كافرًا .
وقال عبدالله : سألت أبي عمن شتم النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم يستتاب ؟ قال : قد وجب القتل ولا يستتاب ، خالد بن الوليد قتل رجلاً شتمك النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ولم يستتبه .
ووردت روايات أخرى كثيرة عن الإمام أحمد كلها مثل هذه ، قال ابن تيمية : فأقواله كلها نص في وجوب قتله ، وفي أنه نقض العهد ، وليس عنه في هذا اختلاف .
قال شيخ الإسلام : وأما الشافعي فالمنصوص عنه نفسه أن عهده ينتقض بسب النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ، وأنه يقتل ، هكذا حكاه ابن المنذر والخطابي وغيرهما .
والمنصوص عنه في الأم أنه قال : إذا أراد الإمام أن يكتب كتاب صلح على الجزية كتب وذكر الشروط إلى أن قال : وعلى أن أحدًا منكم إن ذكر محمدًا صلى الله عليه وسلم أو كتاب الله أو دينه ، مما لا ينبغي أن يذكره ، فقد برئت منه ذمة الله ثم ذمة أمير المؤمنين وجميع المسلمين ، ونقض ما أعطي من الأمان ، وحل لأمير المؤمنين ماله ودمه كما تحل أموال أهل الحرب ودماؤهم .
وقال الإمام مالك : من سب النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أو شتمه أو عابة أو تنقصه ، قُتِل ، مسلمًا كان أو كافرًا ولا يستتاب .

قال ابن تيمية : الساب إن كان مسلمًا فإنه يكفر ، ويقتل بغير خلاف ، وهو مذهب الأئمة الأربعة وغيرهم ، وتقدم قول من حكى الإجماع على ذلك ، وإن كان ذميًا فإنه يقتل أيضًا في مذهب مالك وأهل المدينة ، وهو مذهب أحمد وفقهاء الحديث .
وقال : والدلائل على انتقاض عهد الذمي بسب الله أو كتابه أو دينه أو رسوله ووجوب قتله وقتل المسلم إذا أتى ذلك : الكتاب والسنة وإجماع الصحابة والتابعين والاعتبار .


-The words in red are names.
B- Shias- use google to translate, just to see how much I don't know about Islam-:
1- الشريف المرتضى
- فقد جاء في كتاب: الانتصار - الشريف المرتضى - ص 480 ما نصه [سب النبي] ومما كأن الامامية منفردة به: القول: بأن من سب النبي (صلى الله عليه وآله) مسلما كان أو ذميا قتل في الحال.
2- علي اصغر
- وقد جاء في كتاب: الينابيع الفقهية - علي أصغر مرواريد - ج 9 - ص 21 – 22 ما نصه: مسألة: ومما كانت الامامية منفردة به القول: بأن من سب النبي ص أو عابه مسلما كان أو ذميا قتل في الحال، وخالف باقي الفقهاء في ذلك فقال أبو حنيفة وأصحابه: من سب النبي ص أو عابه وكان مسلما فقد صار «صفحة 22» مرتدا، وان كان ذميا عزر ولم يقتل.

3- وحيد الخراساني
- وقد جاء في كتاب: منهاج الصالحين - الشيخ وحيد الخراساني - ج 1 - ص 326 ما نصه: ومن أحكام سب النبي (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) وسب الله تعالى هو الارتداد والكفر (1).

4- - وقد جاء في كتاب: القواعد الفقهية - السيد البجنوردي - ج 5 - ص 301 ما نصه: ومنها اهانة رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله أو القرآن كما ورد ان من شتم النبي صلى الله عليه وآله يقتل فيما رواه هشام بن سالم عن أبي عبدالله عليه السلام أنه سئل عن شتم رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله فقال عليه السلام يقتله الأدنى فالأدنى قبل ان يرفع الى الامام.

5- - وأيضاً جاء في كتاب: وسائل الشيعة (آل البيت) - الحر العاملي - ج 28 - ص 337 ما نصه 7 - باب حكم من شتم النبي (صلى الله عليه وآله) أو ادعى النبوة كاذبا (34898) 1 - محمد بن يعقوب، عن علي بن ابراهيم، عن أبيه، عن ابن أبي عمير، عن هشام بن سالم، عن أبي عبدالله (عليه السلام) أنه سئل عمن شتم رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله) فقال (عليه السلام): يقتله الأدنى فالأدنى قبل ان يرفع الى الامام.


I pasted the original Arabic texts and google - thanks God - will translate them, don't listen to me or them.. here's the original texts. I am Muslim and I respect my faith and delivering it by telling lies is disrespectful.
 

Shia Islam

Quran and Ahlul-Bayt a.s.
Premium Member
To end this, here's some ...

Just to clarify...
As currently i am not very active in the RF, i did not read the Original post, so i am not very sure about the topic here.

I just posted a very general post about Ibn Taimiya.

As of your last post, i just had a quick look at it.
You seems to be true in it.
 
Wahabi Salafi school which depends on people like Ibn Taimiya and Muhammed Ibn Abdulwahab preach Takfir and violence.

The Wahhabi movement started in similar way as ISIL.

Al those criminal gang group are of Wahhabi ideology ...Including Taliban, al qaeda, ISIL, bokoharam, al Nusra from, and many other similar groups in Syria, n africa, pakistan and everywhere..

The Sunnis must call things as they are...They must not keep silent or stand with these groups. otherwise they are part of the crime perpetrators.
HMmmm what about hezbuallah and huthi !! Are they peace makers?!
 
S
[TE="Ageha, post: 4113417, member: 53184"]Not correct, killing any one who insulate Mohammed PBUH is a law that existed way before ibn taymya, no renaowned muslim scholar had a different opinion, and that includes the Shai'a scholars.[/QUOTE]
So it's an islamic law to kill the prophet mocker?
Would you please tell me the law exactly , if there is a verse or hadith supporting it I'll be so grateful
 

Shia Islam

Quran and Ahlul-Bayt a.s.
Premium Member
HMmmm what about hezbuallah and huthi !! Are they peace makers?!
Hizbollah was established to liberate Lebanese occupied land...The question of why it has interfered in Syria would prolong this reply...So you think about it.

Houthies are fighting for the rights of their people. They have reached agreement with the Sunnis, however al-qaeda started a new war against them.

Keep in mind that the Arab countries are ruled by tyrants. And the Shiite as a minority in the Islamic world are generally oppressed by the Wahhabi/extreme-Salafi groups.
 
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