Idea or Reality

[Fool]

So which came first?

a thing, or it's idea?

 

[Darkstorn]

So which came first?

a thing, or it's idea?

I'm assuming you made this thread before you had the idea about it. Would explain a lot.

But just to entertain you: There has been a lot of things before there was any man to define what "idea" is.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Thing

 

[Darkstorn]

Thing

/Thread.

 

[Quintessence]

It seems to me the question is nonsensical. Ideas are not bound by space-time, and the notion of "first" requires either a position in time or a location in space.

 

[Thief]

So which came first?

a thing, or it's idea?

let there be light!

seems the notion preceded the action

 

[chinu]

I'm assuming you made this thread before you had the idea about it. Would explain a lot.

But just to entertain you: There has been a lot of things before there was any man to define what "idea" is.

Hence, God can never be an Idea.

 

[Darkstorn]

Hence, God can never be an Idea.

You can't infer that from my post though. You just wish you could. :E

Because it definitely can be an idea, unless your premise says that god precedes everything. Well, you're welcome to believe that, there's nothing wrong with that. But to use it in a debate... Makes no sense. The "other side" has to use the scientific method to verify and falsify their claims. You can just ignore those prerequisites.

To me it remains an idea until someone verifies its existence. In plain words, in this context, there is no thing to find, only the idea. So far at least. If the idea of god was verified, then it wouldn't be a matter of faith, but a matter of evidence.

But yeah, wishful thinking doesn't actually reinforce one's views. Sorry.

 

[Polymath257]

Depends on the 'thing'. There were trees before anyone had an idea of a 'tree' because there were trees before there were any people to *have* ideas.

But, there was an idea of 'chess' before someone actually made a chessboard.

 

[Polymath257]

It seems to me the question is nonsensical. Ideas are not bound by space-time, and the notion of "first" requires either a position in time or a location in space.

Ideas happen inside the minds of people and are thereby located in both space and time--in their brains at a certain time.

 

[Robert Landbeck]

So which came first?

a thing, or it's idea?

Imagination must first be able to conceive the idea of something, before it can seek to confirm the reality [thing].

 

[Guy Threepwood]

So which came first?

a thing, or it's idea?

I'd say the idea..

it's not clear that there can ever be creation without creativity..

 

[Darkstorn]

it's not clear that there can ever be creation without creativity..

Technically there cannot be creation without a creator. But the problem remains: CREATION has not been shown. There is no evidence. Or if there is, it's still located in someone's mind as an idea and no one has been able to bring it into reality. Well, until that happens:

"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Hitchens's Razor

Since there is no evidence, it can be dismissed out of hand, just like that. Poof.

I don't like when people construct a premise, then construct an argument based on that premise. But they forget to show that the premise holds true first. They just assume.

 

[janesix]

Idea first. Most things were in the mind of God before they came into existence. Humans also have creativity, with Ideas they turn into reality.

 

[Darkstorn]

Idea first. Most things were in the mind of God before they came into existence.

I don't like how some people refuse to understand this: This is a debate forum. Not a proselytizing forum. You can't assume your premise to be true in a debate against those who DO NOT hold your premise to be true. There are many different people of many different faiths here and some people come into an argument assuming everyone already holds the Christian biblical version of events as the default position.

I think it's intellectual laziness and lowers the quality of threads. At least separate your claims from factual arguments by saying "in my opinion". Please. Otherwise it's a one sided argument by default and that means no one wins.

 

[janesix]

Idea first. Most things were in the mind of God before they came into existence. Humans also have creativity, with Ideas they turn into reality.

 

[Darkstorn]

Idea first. Most things were in the mind of God before they came into existence. Humans also have creativity, with Ideas they turn into reality.

So, no debate, only proselytizing?

 

[janesix]

I don't like how some people refuse to understand this: This is a debate forum. Not a proselytizing forum. You can't assume your premise to be true in a debate against those who DO NOT hold your premise to be true. There are many different people of many different faiths here and some people come into an argument assuming everyone already holds the Christian biblical version of events as the default position.

I think it's intellectual laziness and lowers the quality of threads. At least separate your claims from factual arguments by saying "in my opinion". Please. Otherwise it's a one sided argument by default and that means no one wins.

OK sorry.

 

[Milton Platt]

So which came first?

a thing, or it's idea?

Well, most things do not have ideas, rather only beings with brains do, but I don't think you meant what you actually wrote.

But to answer what guess was your intended question, ideas come from the cognitive faculties of thinking beings and the existence of things is independent of whether a being chances to think about it.

 

[Repox]

So which came first?

a thing, or it's idea?

It is elementary, Watson, everything was here first. Humans developed symbolic communication ability. Then, with the use of symbols, humans communicated. Close your eyes, shut you mouth, and it will still be here.