Ideology Crisis: Need help with a personal matter.

[Terese]

Ok, My mother's brother is Muslim, but he does not know I am Hindu. Every time my family goes to his place, he talks about Islam, and that Allah is the one true God, and that i should read the Quran. I don't want to at all, and his reaction to my Hindu religion would most likely be negative. He makes me feel like the world is a terrible place, and his insistence makes me nervous. He also has schizophrenia, which I am not accustomed to at all. My mother is not Muslim, and is annoyed at him. I need some advice on what to do. Talking about religion (Abrahamic religions) has always made me nervous since I was an atheist, which was like forever, until last year. It's all rather stressful. Feel like I'm backed to a corner when I'm near him.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Probably best to just grin and bear it, and to try to talk about other things than religion while around him. Don't bother bringing up being a Hindu around him. That's between you and Vishnu.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Hmm... I wouldn't worry about it. Even within my family we have specific beliefs we don't agree upon and discuss it with each other (my father and brother ). Since you said "every time my family goes to his place", I feel you guys care for each other. Otherwise I think you wouldn't go to him and he wouldn't welcome you.

Having that said, I suggest you don't let it bother you. If he knows your mother is not Muslims, I think it's okay to tell him you're not. He's family. At worst, ask your mother to tell him that this discussion make her and you feel uncomfortable and talking about other stuff would be nice. Just act along with him nodding with a smile and answers like "hopefully" or "I'll see" or such. Works with the previous generation

I don't think this is a big issue, T, specially that you said your family is secular. Turkish Muslims are mostly secular Muslims from what I hear, so I think he would consider that.

Cheer up. All family have similar disagreements

 

[Laika]

Ok, My mother's brother is Muslim, but he does not know I am Hindu. Every time my family goes to his place, he talks about Islam, and that Allah is the one true God, and that i should read the Quran. I don't want to at all, and his reaction to my Hindu religion would most likely be negative. He makes me feel like the world is a terrible place, and his insistence makes me nervous. He also has schizophrenia, which I am not accustomed to at all. My mother is not Muslim, and is annoyed at him. I need some advice on what to do. Talking about religion (Abrahamic religions) has always made me nervous since I was an atheist, which was like forever, until last year. It's all rather stressful. Feel like I'm backed to a corner when I'm near him.

The value of saying that you are a hindu is in that you can feel comfortable and confident in your beliefs. I'm really not in a good position to know the nature of your mothers brother's beliefs, but it would appear he is a bit on the fanatical side. [this is coming from someone who "was" fanatical and tries to forget that period as rather embarrasing and ashamed because of how my insecurities and personal problems were on display.] the idea of wanting others to believe and you believe is very much "fanatical" and can often imply that someone feels threatened by different views and that if everyone believes the same way a person will feel more secure. It doesn't really work that way because fanatics only project their insecurities on to other people and so are chasing shadows when they really need to take a second look at "why" they hold the beliefs they have and whether that is who they really are and want to be. I think this is where your problems begin.

The problem with fanaticism is that it is emotionally very closed and shut down so it isnt necessarily possible to get a fanatic to admit they are wrong, or to entertain the possibility that they are so or see other people's point of view and find a middle ground. generally speaking, fanatics are best avoided or kept at a distance where possible because you can't really change who they are. It is worth saying that fanaticism is not a measure of the sincerity of a person's beliefs, but often means they feel deeply insecure about what they believe and therefore have to go to extraordinary lengths to prove to themselves that they are sincere. Often, people can grow out of it if they are honest with themselves and start to re-evaluate their beliefs but it takes time.

This is not to say that I am treating your brother as a fanatic because he is religious or because he is Muslim, but it is a certain state of mind that can happen depending on the psychology of a persons beliefs and how they interact with our unconscious conflicts. it can affect any person or any system of beliefs. Beliefs shouldn't be treated in isolation from the rest of a person's personality, and I think your mother's brother's schizophrenia is a factor here. it is highly probable that there is a relationship between them and it is the "disturbance" psychologically which is feeding into the insecurities which make him insistent in his beliefs. that is not the same as saying your brothers beliefs are false but merely to respect there is an extra dimension to his beliefs; his "enthuasaism" may be a coping mechanism for other problems in his life and it superfically makes him feel safe. If I were him, I would imagine believing a god and some sort of cosmic order may be a way of dealing with the disorder in his own life and thoughts as in fairness, I don't imagine it is very pleasant to be in his shoes. if you have a problem that other people can't solve or you can't turn to others for support (mental illness is a big one in terms of being both disempowering and isolating)- your going to want to believe in something greater than yourself which will "save" you from your demons.

I think it would be worth talking to your mother about her brother so you have a better understanding on the history here, his schizophrenia, his belief in Islam and her feelings about it. If she is open to the subject, it is advisable to discuss telling her brother your a hindu and seeing what her views are and what reaction she would expect. religious differences often lead to family conflict, so you have to try and navigate that potentialy minefield with her.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here beyond finding out what you feel and making peace with yourself. it is really about how you feel comfortable and confident in your beliefs and how your mothers-brother affects you personally. What is clear is that you feel unhappy about it, and perhaps even a little threatened by your brothers behaviour. As you don't like the status quo so it is worth exploring options to change it. simply knowing you have those options avaliable may make you feel better even if you decide not to take them or to leave it to a time which you feel the need is more urgent or appropriate.

 

[Papoon]

The value of saying that you are a hindu is in that you can feel comfortable and confident in your beliefs. I'm really not in a good position to know the nature of your mothers brother's beliefs, but it would appear he is a bit on the fanatical side. [this is coming from someone who "was" fanatical and tries to forget that period as rather embarrasing and ashamed because of how my insecurities and personal problems were on display.] the idea of wanting others to believe and you believe is very much "fanatical" and can often imply that someone feels threatened by different views and that if everyone believes the same way a person will feel more secure. It doesn't really work that way because fanatics only project their insecurities on to other people and so are chasing shadows when they really need to take a second look at "why" they hold the beliefs they have and whether that is who they really are and want to be. I think this is where your problems begin.

The problem with fanaticism is that it is emotionally very closed and shut down so it isnt necessarily possible to get a fanatic to admit they are wrong, or to entertain the possibility that they are so or see other people's point of view and find a middle ground. generally speaking, fanatics are best avoided or kept at a distance where possible because you can't really change who they are. It is worth saying that fanaticism is not a measure of the sincerity of a person's beliefs, but often means they feel deeply insecure about what they believe and therefore have to go to extraordinary lengths to prove to themselves that they are sincere. Often, people can grow out of it if they are honest with themselves and start to re-evaluate their beliefs but it takes time.

This is not to say that I am treating your brother as a fanatic because he is religious or because he is Muslim, but it is a certain state of mind that can happen depending on the psychology of a persons beliefs and how they interact with our unconscious conflicts. it can affect any person or any system of beliefs. Beliefs shouldn't be treated in isolation from the rest of a person's personality, and I think your mother's brother's schizophrenia is a factor here. it is highly probable that there is a relationship between them and it is the "disturbance" psychologically which is feeding into the insecurities which make him insistent in his beliefs. that is not the same as saying your brothers beliefs are false but merely to respect there is an extra dimension to his beliefs; his "enthuasaism" may be a coping mechanism for other problems in his life and it superfically makes him feel safe. If I were him, I would imagine believing a god and some sort of cosmic order may be a way of dealing with the disorder in his own life and thoughts as in fairness, I don't imagine it is very pleasant to be in his shoes. if you have a problem that other people can't solve or you can't turn to others for support (mental illness is a big one in terms of being both disempowering and isolating)- your going to want to believe in something greater than yourself which will "save" you from your demons.

I think it would be worth talking to your mother about her brother so you have a better understanding on the history here, his schizophrenia, his belief in Islam and her feelings about it. If she is open to the subject, it is advisable to discuss telling her brother your a hindu and seeing what her views are and what reaction she would expect. religious differences often lead to family conflict, so you have to try and navigate that potentialy minefield with her.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here beyond finding out what you feel and making peace with yourself. it is really about how you feel comfortable and confident in your beliefs and how your mothers-brother affects you personally. What is clear is that you feel unhappy about it, and perhaps even a little threatened by your brothers behaviour. As you don't like the status quo so it is worth exploring options to change it. simply knowing you have those options avaliable may make you feel better even if you decide not to take them or to leave it to a time which you feel the need is more urgent or appropriate.

You have learned a lot of valuable lessons. Respect.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Unfortunate. Fundamental Islamic views are hard to soften. Perhaps you should talk of other things with your brother, for him remain an atheist.

 

[Subhankar Zac]

I got the same treatment from my Hindu family when I told them that I converted to Christianity.
Ironic because none of them have read a single scripture or know any basic knowledge of their faith.
Most Muslims I've met in India are conservative and are always finding ways to mock Hindu beliefs and Hindus for the vice versa.
But though some of the two groups often rarely care about religion and celebrate Eid and Diwali together.
These two religions have some bad blood between each other which won't go anytime soon.
Just wear a swastika or an OM pendant infront of them. Lol.
Shove the thing in their hearts that they irrationally judge and hate the most.
Whenever I've homophobes preaching me sin, I respond by sending them graphic images of gay pornography.
It's the only way to respond to irrational bigots of any kind.
You can be Hindu, buddhist, Satanist, atheist, etc... I think legally they can't touch a hair on your head based on your beliefs.

 

[Mindmaster]

I think if people are grounded in their religion you are in their prayers no matter what religion you are. Any worthwhile religion is about tolerating others, and anything else is a waste of time.

You do have the right to not be bothered about Islam, and you should ask him to stop speaking about Islam in your presence. If it was such a great religion for you, I think you would have already found it. There are so many different religions because there are so many different kinds of people.

My core religious belief centers around amiability and thus many, many paths are incompatible. (Anything Abrahamic) Any path that only accepts one spiritual truth is something like saying everyone should like the same pair of shoes. The inner core of spirituality is a universal brotherhood and sisterhood, and the most valuable thing in a religious path is how it provides for and strengthens each of us.

 

[kalyan]

you will do just fine, Just play along @Terese

 

[David1967]

Ok, My mother's brother is Muslim, but he does not know I am Hindu. Every time my family goes to his place, he talks about Islam, and that Allah is the one true God, and that i should read the Quran. I don't want to at all, and his reaction to my Hindu religion would most likely be negative. He makes me feel like the world is a terrible place, and his insistence makes me nervous. He also has schizophrenia, which I am not accustomed to at all. My mother is not Muslim, and is annoyed at him. I need some advice on what to do. Talking about religion (Abrahamic religions) has always made me nervous since I was an atheist, which was like forever, until last year. It's all rather stressful. Feel like I'm backed to a corner when I'm near him.

If you don't feel comfortable talking religion with him then simply tell him, respectfully that you would rather not talk religion with him. I know several people that I have had to take that approach with. If he will not respect you then don't go around him. May sound harsh but there's not much else you can do.

 

[Terese]

May I add that he thinks he has to teach me about Islam, as he thinks God would judge him at his deathbed on account of not guiding me.

 

[Smart_Guy]

May I add that he thinks he has to teach me about Islam, as he thinks God would judge him at his deathbed on account of not guiding me.

Hmm... try something that could help, but I think he must know you're not Muslim before hand. Maybe he thinks you're Muslim or just not following any other religion, and to some Muslims this counts as being Muslim for younger people.

That something is reminding him with a chapter from the Quran called the Disbelievers. It simply tells Muslims to leave non Muslims alone to peacefully believe what they want to believe. It would be a good idea if you ask your mother to tell that to him. Maybe that could be more effective. But I don't think it's still a bad idea if you told him yourself. You're a nice person and I think people would listen to you in real life.

 

[Terese]

Hmm... try something that could help, but I think he must know you're not Muslim before hand. Maybe he thinks you're Muslim or just not following any other religion, and to some Muslims this counts as being Muslim for younger people.

That something is reminding him with a chapter from the Quran called the Disbelievers. It simply tells Muslims to leave non Muslims alone to peacefully believe what they want to believe. It would be a good idea if you ask your mother to tell that to him. Maybe that could be more effective. But I don't think it's still a bad idea if you told him yourself. You're a nice person and I think people would listen to you in real life.

He thinks I'm a Muslim that does not practice the religion.

 

[LuisDantas]

I have learned that the roles and expectations about religious beliefs vary quite a lot among and inside families. That is one reason why it can be such a difficult subject.

How best to deal with your uncle will, in my opinion, depend mostly on how much space he has with you. It helps that your mother is not encouraging him.

To the extent that it is confortable, it may help to avoid the subject matter. But I am not generally speaking very sympathetic to strategies of deception, even by avoidance of a subject. Having been raised by a couple of fanatics in Kardecist Spiritism, I have learned all too well that confrontation may be necessary, if only to avoid being an unwilling accomplice or victim.

Maybe you could ask your mother whether it could be a good idea to state to your uncle once, politely but clearly, that you are not willing to listen to any proselitism for Islam? That may be a delicate thing to handle, since it is after all her brother. But there is a very high chance that she will have no choice either.

Since he is insisting in specifically asking you to read the Qur'an, you may want to do just that to your own satisfaction (not necessarily much of it), so that you can challenge his claims if it comes to that. Having actual facts from which to argue is usually very helpful, and there seems to be a considerable undercurrent of hope that the Qur'an will somehow magically turn people into Muslims if they only are decent people who begin to read it with honest intent. Such hopes are IMO very misguided, but each and every time that you say or suggest that you never laid eyes on its contents you are passively encouraging their survival - and I doubt that to be a good thing for any of you.

Ultimately, I advise you to consider the simple statement that "Uncle, it is not within your rights to demand me to share of your believe in the Quran. Even the Quran itself says that there is no compulsion in religion, so please stop giving me compulsion." See if you find it both truthful and confortable. Tinker with it as you see fit, until you feel confortable to state it clearly and sincerely to your uncle. It may well be necessary, although I must make it clear that there is no telling whether the results will be pleasant.

 

[Mindmaster]

May I add that he thinks he has to teach me about Islam, as he thinks God would judge him at his deathbed on account of not guiding me.

And, who told him that? I mean, I would evade being disrespectful, but I don't know of any sects of Islam that would accept you being a Muslim to appease someone else. If you were to convert, you would have to convert of your full will to do so not even with a single consideration of anyone else. What he is doing is nearly impossible to rectify in the context of that faith.

 

[Mindmaster]

He thinks I'm a Muslim that does not practice the religion.

Why does he think this? This seems like compounding problems someone is being dishonest here. Is it your mother who supposed to be a Muslim but isn't? And, now you are in a pickle? See, this is just an expanding problem... Why does he think everyone has to be a Muslim? Has no one bothered to explain it plainly that none of you are participating? I'm thinking it's less his fault and more the fact that certain people are not being directly honest with him.

The problem is you have to make more lies to keep one lie. The longer this game goes on the more he will be hurt by honesty, thus everyone's tendency to lie even more. If you are something different, you should be honest and so should anyone else in your family. He needs to know first of all that his family is not homogenous Muslims so he can stop having that expectation. Give people a chance to do the right thing by giving them enough information to do it!

 

[Terese]

Why does he think this? This seems like compounding problems someone is being dishonest here. Is it your mother who supposed to be a Muslim but isn't? And, now you are in a pickle? See, this is just an expanding problem... Why does he think everyone has to be a Muslim? Has no one bothered to explain it plainly that none of you are participating? I'm thinking it's less his fault and more the fact that certain people are not being directly honest with him.

The problem is you have to make more lies to keep one lie. The longer this game goes on the more he will be hurt by honesty, thus everyone's tendency to lie even more. If you are something different, you should be honest and so should anyone else in your family. He needs to know first of all that his family is not homogenous Muslims so he can stop having that expectation. Give people a chance to do the right thing by giving them enough information to do it!

I come from a Muslim family, that's why. I lived a secular life though, and he wants to change that. My mother, and my sisters are not big on religion. (Think my mother is a Deist.)

 

[Terese]

My Uncle is from my mothers' side, my family has never joined in full unison; it's always just visiting my mother's side, or my Father's side. My Uncle only has his parents and sister (my mum). The rest are all in Turkey.

 

[LuisDantas]

Why does he think this?

Apparently, it is a frequent or even necessary Muslim teaching that all people are actually Muslims from birth, albeit often led astray by their social environment. I have been told that the idea of conversion to Islam is dressed as a reversion as opposed to a conversion proper.

Far as I can tell, those are not fringe teachings,but rather Muslim orthodoxy. To be fair, many Muslims end up deemphasizing those even when they are not quite secular. I find it hard to gauge how many.

 

[Mindmaster]

My Uncle is from my mothers' side, my family has never joined in full unison; it's always just visiting my mother's side, or my Father's side. My Uncle only has his parents and sister (my mum). The rest are all in Turkey.

I guess the question is: Does being admitted to being of some other religion cause problems for you when visiting family in Turkey? (They still outlaw apostates right?) If that's the case this is a non-starter. It's probably better that no one knows a damn thing in that case, for the safety of the family, and yourself.

There is nothing about religion worth the physical safety of your family members. Let their comments go, and keep everyone back home O.K.