If a god created the universe...

[Nimos]

If a god created the universe, would said god be bound by the laws of its creation?

Or would the laws that came with/from its creation not apply to said god?

Depends what said God is, but most likely such being would not be bound by it. Obviously it difficult to guess about, because we can only compare to ourselves as creators, but everything we create is bound to the material world one way or another.

So God could have created the Universe sort of like we can create a small micro chip, that doesn't as such impact our lives, but is still within the boundaries of the material world. In that case God would equally have to be bound by the physical laws, even if the Universe to him would be or have the same impact on him as a micro chip have on us. But were that to be the case, I think it would cause a lot of issues with the physical laws. So him not being bound by these seems more likely to me at least, if I should guess.

 

[Brian2]

One problem though is when God gives people ethical rules and commandments, then doesn't follow them himself, though. It creates what's called a Double Standard, and a "Do as I say but not as I do" situation. Of course, the religious person may choose to ignore it as they wish. But it doesn't mean that under modern definitions, it doesn't fit the bill.

It's a good thing that the God of the Bible is not like that.
But when you say "double standard" are you saying that the creator is not on a different level than His creation?

 

[firedragon]

aws of the universe wouldn't apply for a really powerful God, I don't think, unless said God chooses to be bound by them.

Interesting. How do you think an all powerful God who created the universe, will himself to be limited and bound within the laws of his own creation? Can he will himself to be less powerful?

 

[Polymath257]

If a god created the universe, would said god be bound by the laws of its creation?

Or would the laws that came with/from its creation not apply to said god?

No, presumably there would be *other* laws that govern how Gods can create universes and other things that they can do.

There is no reason to think the laws of the created environment are the same as those of the more general environment.

 

[Stonetree]

Okay. So you said your family does unless society does. Where did society and your family get it from?

The center of the family is the mother who supplies nourishment to off spring.Survival of the child depends on the mother and/or the father.This relationship is the basis for order in the family unit. Order is maintained by family rules that establish sharing and responsibilities (chores). Groups of families, by necessity,pick social leaders who organize and monitor the rules and work load for the group or tribe.These rules include sharing and admonishments or punishments for those members who are not efficiently performing their responsibilities.Morals are extensions of social order. No stealing from members.Don't fight or injure members(the tribe needs all members to relate as family members). Groups that did not organize successfully did not survive. Many groups I suppose copied what worked from friendly or competing groups.

 

[firedragon]

The center of the family is the mother who supplies nourishment to off spring.Survival of the child depends on the mother and/or the father.This relationship is the basis for order in the family unit. Order is maintained by family rules that establish sharing and responsibilities (chores). Groups of families, by necessity,pick social leaders who organize and monitor the rules and work load for the group or tribe.These rules include sharing and admonishments or punishments for those members who are not efficiently performing their responsibilities.Morals are extensions of social order. No stealing from members.Don't fight or injure members(the tribe needs all members to relate as family members). Groups that did not organize successfully did not survive. Many groups I suppose copied what worked from friendly or competing groups.

So morality is developed by the society naturally? No consensus or anything of the sort. Just by intuition. Is that correct?

 

[PureX]

If a god created the universe, would said god be bound by the laws of its creation?

Only by choice.

 

[Colt]

Thou shall not kill.
Didn't said god send a plague(the angel of death) to kill the first born sons at one time.

I remember seeing that in the movie the "Ten Commandments" when I was young.

The 10 commandments are laws for man not God.

 

[Stonetree]

So morality is developed by the society naturally? No consensus or anything of the sort. Just by intuition. Is that correct?

I don't think it's intuition, it's mentality. Didn't you, even as a child playing with friends, pick a leader or offer to lead. To me, the ancients were just as smart as we are.It is their methods that formed the basis of ours. It is true we have more information (recorded studies) that enable more sophisticated detailed advancements in specific areas of interest but we still basically use the same methods of socialization that has come down through the ages. I'm not suggesting my opinions are written in stone. There was consensus and still is used coming down through the ages even to today. Marriage good, cheating bad. Killing bad, charity good. Stealing bad, these rules maintain society. I don't believe we needed supernatural intervention to figure out what damages our society. However, Mob mentality is a real threat to order. It must be controlled and any crimes must be punished .

 

[firedragon]

I don't think it's intuition, it's mentality. Didn't you, even as a child playing with friends, pick a leader or offer to lead. To me, the ancients were just as smart as we are.It is their methods that formed the basis of ours. It is true we have more information (recorded studies) that enable more sophisticated detailed advancements in specific areas of interest but we still basically use the same methods of socialization that has come down through the ages. I'm not suggesting my opinions are written in stone. There was consensus and still is used coming down through the ages even to today. Marriage good, cheating bad. Killing bad, charity good. Stealing bad, these rules maintain society. I don't believe we needed supernatural intervention to figure out what damages our society. However, Mob mentality is a real threat to order. It must be controlled and any crimes must be punished .

Where do you think that comes from?

 

[Stonetree]

Where do you think that comes from?

That may be a leading question, do you believe God put that in our minds ?

 

[firedragon]

That may be a leading question, do you believe God put that in our minds ?

I'm not too sure how that works really. As you said there are many things we consider moral and some things we consider immoral kind of embedded in us and we do seem to inherit from our parents or mother as well like you said.

Even some atheist philosophers accept there is some objective morality but of course tend to explain it in a naturalistic sense.

So this one in my opinion has to be some kind of conpatibilist type of explanation to it. But I am not too sure exactly.

 

[Stonetree]

I'm not too sure how that works really. As you said there are many things we consider moral and some things we consider immoral kind of embedded in us and we do seem to inherit from our parents or mother as well like you said.

Even some atheist philosophers accept there is some objective morality but of course tend to explain it in a naturalistic sense.

So this one in my opinion has to be some kind of conpatibilist type of explanation to it. But I am not too sure exactly.

I agree.....

 

[ameyAtmA]

Like most words, perhaps the word "nature" has more than one meaning?

For example, lying might not be in a person's "nature."

Or, God created "nature" and we call it the "environment."

I'm right....naturally.

Yes, you are right, naturally

Environment is a word we applied after the fact, on observation of our surroundings.

What I was suggesting here --- again, just as food for thought -- is that we can take advantage of the language as it evolved.

Why do we say today, "Clara has a very helpful nature and a peaceful temperament" ?
We do not say Clara = help. We say Clara's nature! So Clara is standing apart from her nature. Clara's hair / eyes are not Clara. Clara's mind is not Clara. Clara's nature is intrinsic TO Clara but not Clara herself. Otherwise we would have said Clara-nature without the apostrophe s

This is the microcosmic truth.

Similarly, the macrocosm -- I am only suggesting that it is possibly NATURE of the Divine (Brahman in my mind) to constantly spin out galaxies and star dust out of its intrinsic infinite potential ?
It is nature of the Divine to let molecules form out of its primordial substance ?

Just as it is natural for our hair to grow or blood to clot?
We are not our hair.
We did not intentionally make it grow. [ It is different that we intentionally cut it -- that is not in the nature ]

a)A long braid of hair is not created ex-nihilo. It is a natural part of us. (this is for ex-nihilo theists )
b)A long braid of hair cannot grow by itself stand-alone if not on an organism. (this is for it-just-happened atheists)

So, what is proposed as eternal to the divine according to this above, is
a) Its eternal conscious existence
b) Its primordial content - that is constantly in-flux with the 3 properties of material nature fluctuation up and down => causing , creating, balancing and destroying.


Athiests say it is just b) and Ex-nihilo-thiests say it is just a) but Hinduism suggests b) is intrinsic to a) and hence equally eternal and beginning-less.

 

[Etritonakin]

If a god created the universe, would said god be bound by the laws of its creation?

Or would the laws that came with/from its creation not apply to said god?

An "eternal" God could not be responsible for its own basic existence (though more responsible as more capable of particulars/self-determination) -so its existence would be based on most basic law (pre-universe).
God would essentially be the sum of most basic law/pre-universe stuff having/developing self-awareness, creativity, etc. -and being in a position to affect all, know all, etc., from that point.
"I AM THAT AM" can mean 'I am that which exists'.
"The creation" would essentially be the mind of everything arranging everything (itself) into new configurations.

Notice that it is by our arrangement that we are limited in our ability to affect things. Our minds are behind a wall of complexity.
We interface with our hands, etc., on a certain level (which can be changed/improved using external tools to interface on other levels).
God would be less limited due to his position as original -interfacing on any level -most basic to most complex -but God's own basic nature would always need to be considered -as it is the foundation -so would literally be the basis for all logic, math, physics, whatever.

We are to be given bodies which are worked so as to allow much greater power to interface -and by the design thereof make things more subject to us. So... while God's existence depends on basic law and stuff, arrangement allows for that stuff to be subject to him -the body to be determined by the mind.

"Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself."

 

[syo]

If a god created the universe, would said god be bound by the laws of its creation?

Yes. Otherwise, they'd have turned against themselves.

 

[74x12]

I know petty satraps who behave the same way. How do we know that God is really God, rather than God's secretary or janitor?

We pray to God, and get no answer. We die of horrible illnesses, in horrible agony, yet, we get no pain relief or solace.

Is the real God busy?

Yes we die horribly and suffer agony. Some more than others. Fungus eats their face off and they die or what seems even worse ... keep living in agony. We can get answers from God though. It's just that the answer isn't always that things are suddenly easy for us. That all problems are suddenly solved. I wish. But often there is something that God wants from us and so he doesn't answer the prayer right away. Because as important as our problem may be ... there is perhaps something even more important to God. But that doesn't mean he doesn't empathize with our pain.

The point of suffering, of frailty, infirmity, of weakness and pain. The point of all this is to make us understand that it's not this passing world that truly matters. Not our body, not even our mortal lives. Not even the lives of those we love the most. All these will die. They will be like leaves that fall from the tree. Or as the flowers in the field. Beautiful in their day (even more for us because of love) but withering and dying like all things do. Because what matters the most is within ourselves and this is the only thing you can really own and say it's yours because you can lose all other things. The heart, the mind and the soul of a person. Both ourselves and others. This is what is dearest to God. And in pain/suffering these things are made better and made beautiful. Because only these things can last when everything else dies.

Without pain there could be no solace ever given because there would be no need. No need for healing if you have not wounds. So God made it this way for us. Because this way we can learn to do good and to be good from the heart and not just for appearances.

 

[Suave]

If a god created the universe, would said god be bound by the laws of its creation?

Or would the laws that came with/from its creation not apply to said god?

Not in our simulated universe!, The controller of simulations ( a.k.a. God ) can alter and disrupt the laws typically governing our Matrix.

 

[rational experiences]

If a human only says one God. On the planet they stand claiming my maths zero cold space pressure owns god. I plus add to subtract from eArth. Held mass. Withdrawal from. Gods riches.

Ear. In the thesis is not sound not getting. Th O Th God of numbers...and earth.

Then the mob meant it.

If he says I want to withdraw from first mass he does as Rock stone chemicals dusts. Machines. Then mass is taken to convert destroy. Mr destroyer.

Knew who he was talking about. His brother.

Now that brother says I want to withdraw from space. The mother. As mother owns God he says.

I name it radiation a base.

Yet to convert any mass base means not radiation. Instead changed radiation.

He knows he can't change it.

So then he says I will make a channelled hole to bring it forth.

It will.pour in.

And water his consciousness. Life for biology poured in.

So if no AH was caused in the desert where man built it. Water shifted it's mass.

As man's consciousness life lives by water mass actually.

Why he is wrong always was. Why men write the bible about Mr destroyer. Seems normal is his description. Seems like everyone else. Yet his mind isn't.

Consciousness.

 

[rational experiences]

If a human only says one God. On the planet they stand claiming my maths zero cold space pressure owns god. I plus add to subtract from eArth. Held mass. Withdrawal from. Gods riches.

Ear. In the thesis is not sound not getting. Th O Th God of numbers...and earth.

Then the mob meant it.

If he says I want to withdraw from first mass he does as Rock stone chemicals dusts. Machines. Then mass is taken to convert destroy. Mr destroyer.

Knew who he was talking about. His brother.

Now that brother says I want to withdraw from space. The mother. As mother owns God he says.

I name it radiation a base.

Yet to convert any mass base means not radiation. Instead changed radiation.

He knows he can't change it.

So then he says I will make a channelled hole to bring it forth.

It will.pour in.

And water his consciousness. Life for biology poured in.

So if no AH was caused in the desert where man built it. Water shifted it's mass.

As man's consciousness life lives by water mass actually.

Why he is wrong always was. Why men write the bible about Mr destroyer. Seems normal is his description. Seems like everyone else. Yet his mind isn't.

Consciousness.

Humans have to state all laws first are a human with earth before a theory other.

Other theory space places space in the mind exact. With bodies seen exact as a review.

The machine science string in a theory begins with earth.

If you theory about why space is space then it is a Belief.

If you theory earth to be given a space by machine purpose it is a totally different thesis.

Therefore you have to state personally what type of theist am I.

For new earth inventions or just a storyteller.

Science with one God theism was how to introduce human laws to earths machine gain first.

Minute chemical particle Alchemy is first understood a human.law theoried for building of machines.

Which began categorically as an inner seam transfer of metal mass theoried to the chemical mineral particle by thesis to produce Alchemy.

Where science began in alchemy your human thesis had already by thesis transferred the laws. Just by thesis first.

Why Alchemy had been banned by the church. They knew.