If a person is not sincerely have faith in god first, then he can't feel god's presence.

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm sorry we've to agree to disagree.

Basically, Im saying Gods reason to pull believers are independent of our wants. In other words, our faith doesnt dictate what God can and cant do.

Likewise, our minds can go against its survival methods by thinking of suicide. Our bodies can reproduce cells causing cancer that are not natural to the healthy body. That xoesnt mean our minds are meant to think og suicide and bodies make cancer.

Our faith is dependent on God not God our faith.

 

[George-ananda]

OP: If a person is not sincerely have faith in god first, then he can't feel god's presence.

I don't think that is true. I have heard many stories of atheists having spontaneous spiritual experiences (like NDE's) and feeling God's presence.

 

[lovemuffin]

Some religion say in order to feel their god's presence, one need to sincerely have faith in god first, that is to sincerely accept and believe in god without doubt, then god will enlighten the person, then the person will be able to feel god's presence.

I would characterize this slightly differently. You have defined "faith" as a sincere intellectual assent to the truth of a proposition, i.e "believe in God", that God exists "without doubt". But I think this is a bad way of understanding what faith should mean in this context, even if it's a fairly common one which leads to the issues you've presented.

But consider an analogy to other fields. Many disciplines and forms of knowledge have methodological requirements. If you want to "see" an electron, you need a particular method and special equipment to allow you to detect it. If you want to experience what it is like to see a chessboard the way a grandmaster does, then you will have to spend many thousands of hours studying the game. The experience of God, in many traditions, is not quite like either of those analogies, it is not such a specialist pursuit, but something like "faith", or "purity of heart", or "pure consciousness", is still something like a required methodology, recognizing the unique nature of divinity, which is not a purely objectifiable reality like an electron.

But, faith doesn't mean intellectual belief "without doubt", it means something like an openness to a kind of experience that transcends the purely mental or the purely sensory. Purity of heart doesn't just mean holding to an arbitrary and externally enforced code of ethics, it means a preparation of one's whole being in order to cultivate that open-ness and awareness. Stillness of mind and body, equanimity, compassion, kindness, etc. It's in this sense that I would say it's true that one needs faith to experience God, or that the pure in heart are blessed because they will see God. It's not that the Divine is arbitrarily withholding itself against those who won't force themselves to belief the unbelievable (to them), but something that expresses the nature of what the divine is in itself, and what is needed in human consciousness to approach that sphere of experience.

 

[Awoon]

Some religion say in order to feel their god's presence, one need to sincerely have faith in god first, that is to sincerely accept and believe in god without doubt, then god will enlighten the person, then the person will be able to feel god's presence, then the god become real to the person.

If the person is not sincere, then he can't feel god's presence. He is to be blamed for not sincere, and will be punished.

This religion also claims that they're the only truth religion, or their religion is the most closes to truth; while other religion is false religion, or other religion is not closes to truth.

(1) How many and which religion has this type of claim?

(2) Assume religion A and B has this type of claim.
Is A to be blamed for not sincerely have faith in B's god, therefor A can't feel B's god's presence?
Is B to be blamed for not sincerely have faith in A's god, therefor B can't feel A's god's presence?

(3) If believer A/B try to sincerely have faith in both A's and B's gods, will believer A/B able to feel both A's and B's gods's presence at the same time?

(4) The argument of "because a person is not sincerely have faith in specific god first, therefor he can't feel the god's presence or know that the god is real", is this argument contradicted in itself when multiple religions all have this claims?

(5) Is many religion which believe in different gods, even different sect of religion which believe in one same god, that their religion's law/morality/dogma and their acceptence of interpretation to their own religion is greatly contradicted to each other?

Note: A's or B's god, can be a single god or plural gods.

Where do ideas come from, God, Atheists, Religious People, The Bible?

 

[JoStories]

Thanks for your explain. Now your point is logically right and made sence.

I think maybe i can open a new thread to discuss that:
Many religion claims that if a person sincerely have faith in a specific god, then the god will enlighten him and he will then be able to feel the god's presence.

Then adding your point:
Let's call religion a God and religion B/C/D...etc Satan.
Assume that the god of the God religion and the god of the Satan religion are also figures in the opposing religion.

Someone who believes strongly enough in the religion of God may feel their god's presence.
Someone who believes strongly enough in the religion of Satan may feel their god's presence.

Then ask the question that:
If all religion confirm and declare that their god is not Satan, then which religion's god is Satan? Which religion's god is the truth God?

I don't really agree that if a person has faith in a specific God, then they will see that God. I found my concept of God without this method. IMO, sometimes God can manifest in our lives in unexpected ways. That was the case for me. At that time, I pretty much was an atheist, having been raised to understand NA spirituality, Quakerism, Judaism, Christianity, and atheism. It, IMO , is not necessarily an either/or scenario.

 

[Bunyip]

This is the 'Emperor's New Clothes' principle.