If a soul cannot die..

[F0uad]

I have a question if according to the Christian understanding Jesus(p) died for the sins of man then what did die.. the body or hes soul, if its hes body then Jesus(p) didn't die since the soul is you and the body is just a shell or am i missing something here? And a soul cannot die according to biblical scriptures or did i miss-interpret them:

He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of humans; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end (Ecclesiastes 3:11).

Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. Those who believe in Me, even though they die, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" (John 11:25,26).

Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell (Matthew 10:28).


And if i did miss-interpret them or my argument is wrong can someone then clarify how a spirit/soul can die.


Also how does this fits the idea?

"...he has obeyed My rules and followed My laws - he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, but shall live. To be sure, his father, because he practiced fraud, robed his brother, and acted wickedly among his kin, did die for his iniquity; and now you ask, "Why has not the son shared the burden of his father's guilt?" But the son has done what is right and just, and carefully kept all My laws: he shall live! THE PERSON WHO SINS, HE ALONE SHALL DIE. A child shall not share the burden of a parent's guilt, nor shall a parent share the burden of a child's guilt; the righteousness of the righteous shall be accounted to him alone, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be accounted to him alone."

 

[Azazelthedazzle]

According to the Christians, his flesh died, but he did not die. The soul cannot die. It is an eternal thing.

 

[Bob Dixon]

According to the Christians, his flesh died, but he did not die. The soul cannot die. It is an eternal thing.

Pretty accurate.

So, yes, Jesus didn't die. His body did, but... the Christ did not.

 

[arthra]

What is emphasized is the suffering of Jesus as an atonement... The suffering Messiah abused... maligned.. rediculed...spat upon by men... has paid a price for sin.

"They will mock Him and spit on Him, and scourge Him and kill Him..."

Mark 10:34

This is to fulfill the prophecy of Isaiah 53:3,4,5

"He was despised and forsaken of men, A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; And like one from whom men hide their face He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.

Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted.

But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed."

....................................................

In the old Temple animals were sacrificed to cover the sins of people... Jesus you'll recall drove the money changers and those who were selling animals out of the precincts on the Temple... in a short time He was crucified and became the sacrifice Himself....that's how the concept of atonement developed.

From Baha'i Writings:

"In order to understand the reality of sacrifice let us consider the crucifixion and death of Jesus Christ. It is true that He sacrificed Himself for our sake. What is the meaning of this? When Christ appeared, He knew that He must proclaim Himself in opposition to all the nations and peoples of the earth. He knew that mankind would arise against Him and inflict upon Him all manner of tribulations. There is no doubt that one who put forth such a claim as Christ announced would arouse the hostility of the world and be subjected to personal abuse. He realized that His blood would be shed and His body rent by violence. Notwithstanding His knowledge of what would befall Him, He arose to proclaim His message, suffered all tribulation and hardships from the people and finally offered His life as a sacrifice in order to illumine humanity -- gave His blood in order to guide the world of mankind. He accepted every calamity and suffering in order to guide men to the truth. Had He desired to save His own life, and were He without wish to offer Himself in sacrifice, He would not have been able to guide a single soul. There was no doubt that His blessed blood would be shed and His body broken. Nevertheless, that Holy Soul accepted calamity and death in His love for mankind. This is one of the meanings of sacrifice."

(Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 449)

"There is no doubt that there is vicarious atonement for others, and our sufferings sometimes can be in the nature of a sacrifice accepted for others."


(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 279)

The Spirit of Christ could not be killed ..

"For the body of Christ was crucified and vanished, but the Spirit of Christ is always pouring upon the contingent world, and is manifest before the insight of the people of assurance."

(Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v1, p. 193)

 

[Super Universe]

I have a question if according to the Christian understanding Jesus(p) died for the sins of man then what did die.. the body or hes soul, if its hes body then Jesus(p) didn't die since the soul is you and the body is just a shell or am i missing something here? And a soul cannot die according to biblical scriptures or did i miss-interpret them:

He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of humans; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end (Ecclesiastes 3:11).

Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. Those who believe in Me, even though they die, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" (John 11:25,26).


Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell (Matthew 10:28).


And if i did miss-interpret them or my argument is wrong can someone then clarify how a spirit/soul can die.


Also how does this fits the idea?

"...he has obeyed My rules and followed My laws - he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, but shall live. To be sure, his father, because he practiced fraud, robed his brother, and acted wickedly among his kin, did die for his iniquity; and now you ask, "Why has not the son shared the burden of his father's guilt?" But the son has done what is right and just, and carefully kept all My laws: he shall live! THE PERSON WHO SINS, HE ALONE SHALL DIE. A child shall not share the burden of a parent's guilt, nor shall a parent share the burden of a child's guilt; the righteousness of the righteous shall be accounted to him alone, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be accounted to him alone."

Jesus body died, not His soul. Soul's cannot die but they can be destroyed by very powerful angels.


You have to realize that the universe is incredibly complex, much, much, moreso than could be explained to the simple humans who wrote the Old Testament. Still, it was explained to them and it was explained CORRECTLY. What they then wrote was their own "childish" interpretation of what was revealed to them.

 

[Lucian]

I have a question if according to the Christian understanding Jesus(p) died for the sins of man then what did die.. the body or hes soul, if its hes body then Jesus(p) didn't die since the soul is you and the body is just a shell or am i missing something here? And a soul cannot die according to biblical scriptures or did i miss-interpret them:

He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of humans; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end (Ecclesiastes 3:11).

Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. Those who believe in Me, even though they die, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" (John 11:25,26).

Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell (Matthew 10:28).


And if i did miss-interpret them or my argument is wrong can someone then clarify how a spirit/soul can die.


Also how does this fits the idea?

"...he has obeyed My rules and followed My laws - he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, but shall live. To be sure, his father, because he practiced fraud, robed his brother, and acted wickedly among his kin, did die for his iniquity; and now you ask, "Why has not the son shared the burden of his father's guilt?" But the son has done what is right and just, and carefully kept all My laws: he shall live! THE PERSON WHO SINS, HE ALONE SHALL DIE. A child shall not share the burden of a parent's guilt, nor shall a parent share the burden of a child's guilt; the righteousness of the righteous shall be accounted to him alone, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be accounted to him alone."

The body is not just a shell. The body is you, and the soul is you as well. The third scriptural reference from Matthew says "rather fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell". So the soul can die. In the biblical account, only God is given unconditional immortality. If God has created something, God can also destroy it - that is how a soul can die.

The last quote you can read in the way that the person dies and is gone forever. The person that does not sin will live, just like in the quote from John. Jesus was resurrected. Others will be resurrected as well, as in "they die, but will live". It seems to emphasize that death is not the end for the saints, but eternal life awaits them. It's also conditional, not unconditional like God's immortality.

The last quote is interesting in that it rejects the doctrine of original sin.