If all the world were Hare Krishna...

[YmirGF]

The actual Four Regulative Principles are as follows:

1) No meat eating (including meat, fish, eggs, onions, garlic, and mushrooms) - encourages mercy and compassion
2) No gambling - encourages truthfulness
3) No intoxication (includes drugs, alcohol, smoking, and caffeinated substances) - encourages cleanliness
4) No illicit sex - regulated sex life, best within marriage and as much as possible, only for children, once a month (but that's more of a Vaishnava rule; basic is sex within marriage) - encourages chastity

So would you be able to take up these ethical and spiritual practices? If you chanted the Name of God, and followed these ethical standards to the best of your ability, it paves a life conducive to the practice of any form of yoga. It is why we also tout it 'nonsectarian' because we do not seek to convert other religionists; we simply are here to inform that the glorification of God and His Names are essential to a bhakti-influenced lifestyle.

Hehe. I used to go for all of that -- until the night when I spent 8 hours with Vishnu -- since then, none of the above seems so terribly important. It's all little more that belly-button lint, really.

Are you following these things, some of these things, none of these things, or are already following these things?

To me, these rules are no longer even remotely relevant.

I'm just curious to see if I will ever see Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Zoroastrians, Wiccans and other Neo-Pagans, Buddhists, Baha'is, Unitarian Universalists, Native Spiritualists, Cao Daiists, Bayanis, New Agers, Jains, Sikhs, Daoists, Confucianists, Satanists, Scientologists, Jews (and even atheists) etc. take up such a lifestyle.

Of course you would be curious to see others behaving similar to how you behave, lol. This is not rocket science, my friend.

Scientologists? New Agers? :drool: Atheists? :cover: -- oh good grief.

 

[methylatedghosts]

What Krishnano said, what is good for the body, is not necessarily good for the mind. In Yoga the Yogi develops very acute awareness and their normal senses become very refined. If you gave a Yogi some food containing onion or garlic, even trace amounts, they could tell it contains onion and garlic. This is because of the effects it has on their mind. I realised this when I abstained from alcohol for a long time, and alcohol has more stronger effects so I am not claiming super sensitivity, I realised just how much I noticed its effects after having a sip again. I felt it pulling my consciousness down that instant.

Although I don't see the wisdom in abstaining from something you have not yet realised is bad for you. if you have not felt onions and garlic are bad for you, then continue eating them. I am doing the same. But I am not living a hardcore life of Yoga yet so I feel no need to abstain from them, and nor do I abstain from the occasional drink, but when I do start living a pure Yoga lifestyle, I am going to have to. It helps you in your meditation

I'm more of the view that if it tastes good and/or is healthy for me, I'm gonna eat it (or drink it - though... garlic juice doesn't sound to appealing). Likewise, if I enjoy something I'm going to continue doing it.

 

[Surya Deva]

Methylatedghosts,

Things that taste good are not necessarily good

Anyway, as far as meditation is concerned, garlic, onions, meats, eggs, alcohol and most drugs are not good for it. If you are a sincere meditator you would have to abstain from these otherwise you will not progress in meditation. Yoga is very firm on this point.

 

[BruceDLimber]

I'm afraid I'm reminded of the old, tired one that goes like this!:


A seeker travels far and endures much hardship to reach the Guru to ask his question. When he finally arrives there, he asks:

S: Guru, I've come a long, hard journey to ask you, so please tell me--how can I live forever?

G> Well, my son, to live forever, you must follow three rules:

G> First, you must never smoke.

G> Second, you must never drink.

G> And most important of all, you must never sleep with any bad women!

S> But Guru, do you mean to say that if I [counts on his fingers] never smoke, never drink, and never sleep with any bad women, that I'll live forever??!!

G> No, my son. But it'll seem that way.


<g, d&r>

 

[YmirGF]

Anyway, as far as meditation is concerned, garlic, onions, meats, eggs, alcohol and most drugs are not good for it. If you are a sincere meditator you would have to abstain from these otherwise you will not progress in meditation. Yoga is very firm on this point.

I shudder to think how far I would get without these things, lol. As a sincere meditator for 3+ decades, I can only chuckle, really. Personally, I'd love to see scientific studies to prove this somewhat vapid and highly misleading claim.

 

[Charity]

Doesn't the ISKCON teach that what Krishna does freely for his own pleasure (intoxication, sex outside of marriage, etc) is prohibited to his devotees?.....

 

[Surya Deva]

I shudder to think how far I would get without these things, lol. As a sincere meditator for 3+ decades, I can only chuckle, really. Personally, I'd love to see scientific studies to prove this somewhat vapid and highly misleading claim.

Perhaps what you call meditation is not meditation I do not mean to undermine you, but I have known of many people who have been meditating for years, but don't really seem to show anymore wisdom or enlightenment than the average joe. I once questioned one who was practicing TM, and I realised he wasn't actually meditating and when he was not meditating he was getting inebirated and listening to heavy rock

The ego tricks us all the time. There are definite signs your meditation is progressing, have you read the Yoga Sutras?

One way to undo any progress you have made in meditation is to counter it with the following

- The consumption of tamasic food: meat, eggs, drugs, alcohol
- Tamasic activity: listening to loud music, violent sports, sense indulgence
- Non practice of yama and niyamas: not being honest, being harsh, not being content, not maintaining cleasiness, desiring things not needed, not regulating sexual activity, being angry, arrogant, lustful etc etc

If your aim of meditation is to achieive peace and stillness, then doing any of the above when you are not meditating is countering any progress you are making when meditating.

To be honest, and this is only my opinion, I think if somebody has been meditating for a couple of years and is still eating animals and drinking alcohol, they have probably been doing something other than meditation.....Hey don't take it personal, I have not been meditating properly either.

 

[methylatedghosts]

Perhaps what you call meditation is not meditation I do not mean to undermine you, but I have known of many people who have been meditating for years, but don't really seem to show anymore wisdom or enlightenment than the average joe. I once questioned one who was practicing TM, and I realised he wasn't actually meditating and when he was not meditating he was getting inebirated and listening to heavy rock

The ego tricks us all the time. There are definite signs your meditation is progressing, have you read the Yoga Sutras?

One way to undo any progress you have made in meditation is to counter it with the following

- The consumption of tamasic food: meat, eggs, drugs, alcohol
- Tamasic activity: listening to loud music, violent sports, sense indulgence
- Non practice of yama and niyamas: not being honest, being harsh, not being content, not maintaining cleasiness, desiring things not needed, not regulating sexual activity, being angry, arrogant, lustful etc etc

If your aim of meditation is to achieive peace and stillness, then doing any of the above when you are not meditating is countering any progress you are making when meditating.

To be honest, and this is only my opinion, I think if somebody has been meditating for a couple of years and is still eating animals and drinking alcohol, they have probably been doing something other than meditation.....Hey don't take it personal, I have not been meditating properly either.

Perhaps...

However there are other... reasons.... to meditate.

Or maybe no reason at all.

I find it difficult to believe that garlic or a sausage or two might change the ability to meditate "properly".

 

[Surya Deva]

Believe it

Look I have said myself I don't see the wisdom in abstaining from onions and garlic yet. I cannot tell what effect it as on me. But you have to understand that the Yoga masters had far more acute senses. They can sense these things, they know what is good and what isn't for the mind.

There is something within onion and garlic which can induce powerful effects - onions can make you weep and garlic gives you bad breath. I think the reason has something to do with irritating ones prana(life force) this is why these food items are advised against.

As for pork sausages, here the reason is more obvious. You are eating dead flesh of a pig. Have you ever considered eating a human corpse? Most people would find that disgusting, but will readily consume animal corpses. This is not good food, trust me.
The meats that we consume are like putting toxins in our system. They turn rancid within us and they imbued with negative/fear energy that was induced on the animal at the time of slaughter.

You are what you eat as a saying goes. Moreover, I don't see any justification for killing other living creatures. In Hinduism this is considered a huge sin, and the person who partakes of the meat is also commiting sin. It's a horrible thing to do, seriously, these animals are living beings, they experience feelings like you and me, they are capable of learning like you and me.

Nature has given us such nourishing things to eat like fruit, vegetable, rice, grains, milk. Why do we have to kill our animal friends?

 

[YmirGF]

Perhaps what you call meditation is not meditation I do not mean to undermine you,

I am sure... and yet you continue to do just that. Are you suggesting that you do things you do not intend?

but I have known of many people who have been meditating for years, but don't really seem to show anymore wisdom or enlightenment than the average joe.

Then again, perhaps it is your preconceptions about these two things that does not allow you to see what is there.

I once questioned one who was practicing TM, and I realised he wasn't actually meditating and when he was not meditating he was getting inebirated and listening to heavy rock

Is this supposed to be a meaningful reply? You credibility is slipping, my friend.

The ego tricks us all the time. There are definite signs your meditation is progressing, have you read the Yoga Sutras?

Not in a very long time. Quite honestly, I have no need for them. Do you? Heck, I'll put it on my reading list if I ever get bored enough to read 'em again.

One way to undo any progress you have made in meditation is to counter it with the following

I hadn't realize that inner advancement could be countered by external action. That is a rather novel idea. I will take the following for what they are truly worth.

- The consumption of tamasic food: meat, eggs, drugs, alcohol

Oh good grief. *Watches Suraj's credibility plummet like Dow Jones*

- Tamasic activity: listening to loud music, violent sports, sense indulgence

*Watches Suraj's credibility go into freefall*

- Non practice of yama and niyamas: not being honest, being harsh, not being content, not maintaining cleasiness, desiring things not needed, not regulating sexual activity, being angry, arrogant, lustful etc etc

Breathtaking.

If your aim of meditation is to achieive peace and stillness, then doing any of the above when you are not meditating is countering any progress you are making when meditating.

I think you have just demonstrated that you really don't have the slightest idea of what you are talking about. I am well beyond the "peace and stillness" stage of the rank amateur.

To be honest, and this is only my opinion, I think if somebody has been meditating for a couple of years and is still eating animals and drinking alcohol, they have probably been doing something other than meditation.....

Given that you credibility is about zilch, in my humble opinion, I would recommend that others take your opinions on these matters with several grains of salt.

Hey don't take it personal, I have not been meditating properly either.

That much is evident and hardly needed to be expressed. I do tend to take it a bit personally though when people who know relatively little about a given topic try to come across as a voice of authority. That is just so -- unseemly.

 

[Surya Deva]

YmirGF, given your recent response to me, I feel vindicated, you cannot be somebody whose been meditating properly sincerely for 3 years

Meditation is a tool, nothing more. It is a means through which we can cultivate consciousness and expand awareness - awareness is key. When somebody becomes aware of their body, mind and soul, they begin to make changes in their life. For example you begin to monitor what you consume, what you listen to, who you befriend, how you speak, how you think. Indeed even the average health-conscious person will limit their intake of substances like nicotine and alcohol, or not take them at all. This is true because a lot of people that do fitness training limit such intake. It's because they are aware of what's good for them and what's not.

If after 3 years you have not realised alcohol etc is not good for you, then you've been using a tool without a purpose. You are not alone on this, many people in the new-age seem to think meditation is this magical thing which will transform their life. They give it a bad reputation and surround it in kookiness. They sit for 30min or 1 hour everyday and convince themselves of great spiritual progress and soon psychic powers. While keeping more or less the same lifestyle. It's like getting the Ab-roller superdeluxue, working out everyday, while not monitoring your diet

I do not see Meditation as a mystical thing or a magic button which you press and are transported to Narnia When it was develped by the Vedic scientists it was developed as a scientific tool to explore the inner realm. The reason I asked you to read the Yogasutra is because it treats meditation as it should be, like a mechanical science and like any sciences it makes predictions. It is an invaluable resource for a serious meditator. Anyhow, just like hypnosis is nothing more than a tool, meditation is just a tool. It expands ones awareness about the world and themselves.

Meditation is useless however if you do not apply that expanded awareness to the real world. For this the Yoga sutras stipulates the twin-fold tool called: Vivek and Vairgya. Vivek is positive discrimination and Vairagya is detachment(I'll abbrebiate this to 2V) You must be able to discriminate between what is right and what is wrong, and when you have proven something is wrong, you are to detach from it. Here is a trite but humerous example:

A person is driving his car and realises hes gone off in the wrong direction and is heading for a cliff. He shouts to the passenger, "Damn, I am heading for the cliff, damn what can I do!" The passenger shouts, "TURN THE DAMN CAR AROUND!!!"

The irony about a lot of problems in our life is that they are as simple and trite as the above. The problem is created because of thinking or doing wrong things, applying 2V, we think and do the opposite. Today this has evolved into a technique we call positive thinking, widely used in psychotherapy. Although in Yoga it is more than that, it is a whole life transforming technique. The meditation gives us that expanded awareness to detect even the subtle errors in ones life, and then using the 2V technique, we correct that error and move on.

It should be understood meditation is actually devised to correct errors. Have you heard of Right Thinking(Present both in Yoga and the 8-fold path of Buddhism)? The aim is to undo the ignorance that causes the mind to become misindentified with things and thinks false things.

It is interesting you call yourself a Bodhisattva and yet you do not practice the 8-fold path, which stipulates the same Yama and Niyamas of Yoga.

 

[YmirGF]

YmirGF, given your recent response to me, I feel vindicated, you cannot be somebody whose been meditating properly sincerely for 3 years

Suraj, I have been an active meditator since 1974. That is 34 years, not three. Are you even 34 years old?

Meditation is a tool, nothing more. It is a means through which we can cultivate consciousness and expand awareness - awareness is key. When somebody becomes aware of their body, mind and soul, they begin to make changes in their life. For example you begin to monitor what you consume, what you listen to, who you befriend, how you speak, how you think. Indeed even the average health-conscious person will limit their intake of substances like nicotine and alcohol, or not take them at all. This is true because a lot of people that do fitness training limit such intake. It's because they are aware of what's good for them and what's not.

I do not disagree with all of this but you have to understand that what you are describing applies only to people in the initial zealot stages. The more advanced person realizes them to be the minor self-imposed limitations that they are.

If after 3 years you have not realised alcohol etc is not good for you, then you've been using a tool without a purpose. You are not alone on this, many people in the new-age seem to think meditation is this magical thing which will transform their life. They give it a bad reputation and surround it in kookiness. They sit for 30min or 1 hour everyday and convince themselves of great spiritual progress and soon psychic powers. While keeping more or less the same lifestyle. It's like getting the Ab-roller superdeluxue, working out everyday, while not monitoring your diet

I have little more than contempt for so-called "new age" thinking, my friend. BTW: I don't drink, per se.

I do not see Meditation as a mystical thing or a magic button which you press and are transported to Narnia When it was develped by the Vedic scientists it was developed as a scientific tool to explore the inner realm. The reason I asked you to read the Yogasutra is because it treats meditation as it should be, like a mechanical science and like any sciences it makes predictions.

It is a belief system and as such, the results are entirely predictable. Your point it?

It is an invaluable resource for a serious meditator. Anyhow, just like hypnosis is nothing more than a tool, meditation is just a tool. It expands ones awareness about the world and themselves.

That much should be evident to a carrot, Suraj. The thing is Suraj, once the tool uncovers the reality of inner being, the tool is no longer terrible essential. When the barriers between subject and object disintegrate, One is left considering rather amusing options. Perhaps you are not aware of this.

Meditation is useless however if you do not apply that expanded awareness to the real world. For this the Yoga sutras stipulates the twin-fold tool called: Vivek and Vairgya. Vivek is positive discrimination and Vairagya is detachment(I'll abbrebiate this to 2V) You must be able to discriminate between what is right and what is wrong, and when you have proven something is wrong, you are to detach from it. Here is a trite but humerous example:

True... unless One has a specific reason for NOT doins so.

A person is driving his car and realises hes gone off in the wrong direction and is heading for a cliff. He shouts to the passenger, "Damn, I am heading for the cliff, damn what can I do!" The passenger shouts, "TURN THE DAMN CAR AROUND!!!"

When the cliff, the direction, the doubt, the car, the driver and the passenger are One, the analogy loses its meaning.

The irony about a lot of problems in our life is that they are as simple and trite as the above. The problem is created because of thinking or doing wrong things, applying 2V, we think and do the opposite.

Right and wrong are relatively meaningless value-judgments. Forgive me if I choose not to subscribe to such illusions.

Today this has evolved into a technique we call positive thinking, widely used in psychotherapy. Although in Yoga it is more than that, it is a whole life transforming technique. The meditation gives us that expanded awareness to detect even the subtle errors in ones life, and then using the 2V technique, we correct that error and move on.

I prefer to call it learning the art of acting efficiently. In theory, only the thickest dullard needs these things layed out for them in a rigid framework.

It should be understood meditation is actually devised to correct errors. Have you heard of Right Thinking(Present both in Yoga and the 8-fold path of Buddhism)? The aim is to undo the ignorance that causes the mind to become misindentified with things and thinks false things.

One could also describe it as self-hypgnosis forcing the individual preconceptions into personal reality. You get what you put in, it is as simple as that.

It is interesting you call yourself a Bodhisattva and yet you do not practice the 8-fold path, which stipulates the same Yama and Niyamas of Yoga.

Perhaps I am attempting to add a much more immediate, richer, more personal aspect to a deal ideal. Since it does not mesh with your preconceptions about things, I do understand that that may strike some as more than a bit odd. Not to worry, I can wait. I have all the time in the universe... and then some.

 

[herushura]

Krishna is Ishnar in Sumerian the Earth Super Mother godess

 

[Surya Deva]

YmirGF,

You are not the first and nor will you be the last that has claimed they have become enlightened/highly evolved spirituallly. I have talked to many a people who claim they are now enlightened and do not have to follow any rules, because rules are for the, as you say, "dullards, zealots, and carrots" no, they are above and beyond everyone else, including the Buddha, Sankaras and the seers of the past. My friend fell into this trap after visiting a few spiritual groups and meditating for a while, she declared to me, "I am an ascended master" and she went through a phase of arrogance much like yourself, but her phase ended and she came to her senses. I have met many psychics claiming to be super-duper-psychics, which have no psychic powers whatsoever, but whatever they think is real according to them. They tend to be paranoid wrecks which end up destroying all their relationship because the saw a black aura and sensed hidden meanings in others words.

What is the use of reason and logic to a super enlightened being like yourself? Why do you need to even have to think of what you do, your enlightened, therefore everything you do is enlightened... right? There are no rights and wrongs, it's all an illusion, yet if somebody says something to you which offends you, you react with personal attacks. I thought there were no rights or wrongs? There is no gravity, it is an illusion, a limiting belief, but that does not stop you from keeping your feet on ground

Sorry I have heard it all before. I know when I am in the presence of an enlightened person. I know when I read something Ramakrishna says, Guru Nanak says, Buddha says, the Vedic seers say I am reading the words of accomplished enlightened people. I have after many years of studying the works of the noble and wise, realised they all think alike, are humble and gentle people and promote wisdom and love. You do not think like them.

 

[cardero]

I can cope with no intoxication, but I do like weed ...

I knew it!!!

 

[Mirko]

I was just thinking; would you as religionists do it?

I mean, Gaudiya Vaishnava philosophy aims to be nonsectarian in that it allows a person to keep one's own religion if it teaches them love of God and to glorify Him, especially through His Holy Names.

Anyone from any religion can practice Gaudiya philosophy and be a 'Gaudiya Christian' 'Gaudiya Muslim' 'Gaudiya Sikh' etc. even if they do not want to chant Hare Krishna.

The only requirement is the understanding that one is a servant of God (never was God and never will become or merge into God) and that the best way to remember Him is through chanting His Name revealed in Scripture, such as Jehovah or YHWH, Allah, Krishna, Waheguru, Abha, etc. And even further when following certain ethical standards of living, such as vegetarianism, no gambling, no drugs, alcohol or caffeine, and regulated sex life within marriage.

The actual Four Regulative Principles are as follows:

1) No meat eating (including meat, fish, eggs, onions, garlic, and mushrooms) - encourages mercy and compassion
2) No gambling - encourages truthfulness
3) No intoxication (includes drugs, alcohol, smoking, and caffeinated substances) - encourages cleanliness
4) No illicit sex - regulated sex life, best within marriage and as much as possible, only for children, once a month (but that's more of a Vaishnava rule; basic is sex within marriage) - encourages chastity

So would you be able to take up these ethical and spiritual practices? If you chanted the Name of God, and followed these ethical standards to the best of your ability, it paves a life conducive to the practice of any form of yoga. It is why we also tout it 'nonsectarian' because we do not seek to convert other religionists; we simply are here to inform that the glorification of God and His Names are essential to a bhakti-influenced lifestyle.

Are you following these things, some of these things, none of these things, or are already following these things?

I'm just curious to see if I will ever see Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Zoroastrians, Wiccans and other Neo-Pagans, Buddhists, Baha'is, Unitarian Universalists, Native Spiritualists, Cao Daiists, Bayanis, New Agers, Jains, Sikhs, Daoists, Confucianists, Satanists, Scientologists, Jews (and even atheists) etc. take up such a lifestyle.

Hare Krishna!

NEVER!!! i would never give up mushrooms! good, beautiful, tasty, mushrooms. Never!

but seriously why not mushrooms? the part that you eat is only a replacable reproductive organ, it grows back each year, and you can never, even if you would want to, get them all
the mushroom itself is underneath, meters and meters of veins and capilars
its like picking fruit, no one gets hurt, unlike when you cut wheat or harvest rice

and since when do Hare Krishna not eat mushrooms
i ask because i have a friend who is Hare Krishna and he eats mushrooms
maybe i should tell him about it

allthou we do get in these long and annoying discussions on why not eggs?
why not eggs?
i get the part where eggs are produced industrially from chickens crammed in filthy cages eating each others eyes out
but why not eggs from free grown chickens
the hen is free and healthy, living off grass, bugs and corn, the egg is better than the ones from the store, and it has to get layed any way
so whats the problem?

and whats up with no garlic?

 

[Surya Deva]

Because eating eggs is eating a embroyo in its nascent stages.

 

[Mirko]

no no no, an embryo is in a fertilised egg, practically all eaten eggs are not fertilised, so contain no embryo

 

[Surya Deva]

It's different with hens my friend

 

[Don Penguinoini]

I think I'll pass..

..and what exactly is wrong with onions, garlic and mushrooms?

I think onions make you horny.