If Atheism is a psychological position we don't need to seriously consider it

[Trailblazer]

It's already proven fact that theists cannot substantiate anything along the lines of they're being a God.

But that does not mean there is no God. Proof is not what makes God exist. God could exist and provide no proof of His existence, but God does not do that. God provides the proof of His existence by sending Messengers.

God just isn't there, and there's nothing existing that would credit much less suggest that any of the claims made thus far have any merit by which can be pursued in a convincing fashion as to even suggest a possibility.

God is there but not anywhere you can see Him because God does not want to be seen.
The fact that atheists are not convinced that God exists proves nothing except that they do not recognize the evidence of God's existence.

There is actually nothing there whatsoever to properly establish there is any proactive deity at work.

There is no way we can know what God is doing or not doing, but that does not mean God is not doing anything. The only thing we know is that God sends Messengers. We cannot know anything else that God does.

That's the proof, and it's a strong and concrete enough to say it's factually accurate and reliable as things stand.

That is not proof of anything because what you say is not factual. It is just your personal opinion.

 

[Jim]

i think you will find that most atheists dont go around "denouncing" gods ...

Maybe so. I don’t remember saying or thinking that most of them do. Mostly what I see them doing is denouncing some religions and their followers.

But they will retaliate when people throw belief in their faces or misrepresent atheism in order to make them feel all warm and sanctimonious.

Exactly.

 

[lukethethird]

God does not want to be seen.

That bad, eh?

I must say, He sure does a good job of making Himself invisible.

 

[Trailblazer]

That bad, eh?

What is bad about that?

 

[lukethethird]

What is bad about that?

Maybe He should see a doctor.

 

[Trailblazer]

Maybe He should see a doctor.

Why?

 

[lukethethird]

Why?

He might have got too much sun from basking in His glory and His holiness.

 

[Trailblazer]

He might have got too much sun from basking in His glory and His holiness.

Why do you think that? What is wrong with God?

 

[lukethethird]

Why do you think that? What is wrong with God?

I don't know, is it serious?

 

[Twilight Hue]

But that does not mean there is no God. Proof is not what makes God exist. God could exist and provide no proof of His existence, but God does not do that. God provides the proof of His existence by sending Messengers.

God is there but not anywhere you can see Him because God does not want to be seen.
The fact that atheists are not convinced that God exists proves nothing except that they do not recognize the evidence of God's existence.

There is no way we can know what God is doing or not doing, but that does not mean God is not doing anything. The only thing we know is that God sends Messengers. We cannot know anything else that God does.

That is not proof of anything because what you say is not factual. It is just your personal opinion.

How is it not factual?

God and theism in general was never a fact to even begin with. Pulling things out of a person's thoughts and writing it down in a book out of thin air is what's personal opinion.

What I am saying is factual because the facts are already there to begin with without having or requiring to pull anything out of thin air to confirm it.

 

[Willamena]

You could also say with certainty , "There are no gods", and you subsequently wait and wait and wait, for all intents and purposes which confirms the fact there are no gods to counteract your statement, it stands firmly as being a statement of fact.

You don't need a belief for that because it's clearly true to date .

Things that are clearly true are undoubtedly believed.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

It has a long and complicated history, but currently hostile atheism is one reaction among others to religions being used to excuse and camouflage crimes against humanity. Some people see beliefs in Abrahamic Gods at the heart of the problem, and they’re on a warpath against those. Also, some people have been oppressed and even traumatized by a stigma on atheism where they came from, and they’re using people who believe in Abrahamic Gods as effigies and Voodoo dolls.

No, mostly "hostile atheism" is a reaction to those proclaiming that they have knowledge which they can't possibly have, and then insisting that it gives them the right to tell others how to live their lives.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't know, is it serious?

No, there is nothing wrong with God. He is just fine.

 

[Trailblazer]

How is it not factual?
God and theism in general was never a fact to even begin with. Pulling things out of a person's thoughts and writing it down in a book out of thin air is what's personal opinion

Nothing was pulled out of anyone's thoughts and written down in a book. It was revealed to the Messengers of God by God and then written down. That is not a fact because it cannot be proven, it is a belief. But it is a belief that can be true.

What I am saying is factual because the facts are already there to begin with without having or requiring to pull anything out of thin air to confirm it.

What facts are these? What you are attributing to God or no God is just what you imagine. Nobody can KNOW anything about what God is doing or not doing in the world because God is beyond our comprehension.

“How wondrous is the unity of the Living, the Ever-Abiding God—a unity which is exalted above all limitations, that transcendeth the comprehension of all created things! He hath, from everlasting, dwelt in His inaccessible habitation of holiness and glory, and will unto everlasting continue to be enthroned upon the heights of His independent sovereignty and grandeur. How lofty hath been His incorruptible Essence, how completely independent of the knowledge of all created things, and how immensely exalted will it remain above the praise of all the inhabitants of the heavens and the earth!” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 261-262​

 

[LuisDantas]

The idea that any position can be accepted without needing to support it is absurd and dangerous.

Yep. That is why theistic proselitism must be challenged. And one of the consequences is that atheism must make itself noticed.

There is no "burden of proof," anyone who has a position needs to defend it.

There is indeed a burden of proof when people claim to have the authority to decide what others should believe in.

Ask yourself: if you don't have evidence and arguments to believe something, and can't / aren't willing to defend it... Is it really a worthwhile position?

That is a good question to ask the proselitizers of theism.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Nothing was pulled out of anyone's thoughts and written down in a book. It was revealed to the Messengers of God by God and then written down. That is not a fact because it cannot be proven, it is a belief. But it is a belief that can be true.

What facts are these? What you are attributing to God or no God is just what you imagine. Nobody can KNOW anything about what God is doing or not doing in the world because God is beyond our comprehension.

“How wondrous is the unity of the Living, the Ever-Abiding God—a unity which is exalted above all limitations, that transcendeth the comprehension of all created things! He hath, from everlasting, dwelt in His inaccessible habitation of holiness and glory, and will unto everlasting continue to be enthroned upon the heights of His independent sovereignty and grandeur. How lofty hath been His incorruptible Essence, how completely independent of the knowledge of all created things, and how immensely exalted will it remain above the praise of all the inhabitants of the heavens and the earth!” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 261-262​

You need a God first to have a messenger of God.

The hard and undisputed fact is there is no God whatsoever to be found anywhere or any place. Just people saying all this stuff, writing it down, and pretending there's something there when factually there isn't.

Of course it was pulled out of people's heads. There is no reason at all to think people today are no different than people long past in this regard. It's certainly not an assumption or speculation because it's what people do that contrasts sharply the actuality of what's going on and what's present. It's easy enough to see that.

It's just the way the fact stands.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Things that are clearly true are undoubtedly believed.

Well I don't think you need to believe in what's already true.

It follows beliefs typically come in when people exaggerate or fabricate past the fact of the matter giving the belief itself a "life" of its own.

 

[Trailblazer]

You need a God first to have a messenger of God.

Obviously, but God is not going to show up just so you will all KNOW God exists. If God sends Messengers as His Representatives then God has no reason to show up, and if God could show up God would not have to send Messengers; so you can do the math.

The hard and undisputed fact is there is no God whatsoever to be found anywhere or any place. Just people saying all this stuff, writing it down, and pretending there's something there when factually there isn't.

It makes NO sense at all that if God exists God could be found. If God could be found that would prove that God does not exist, since God is By Definition unknowable, exalted beyond any human understanding.

Of course it was pulled out of people's heads. There is no reason at all to think people today are no different than people long past in this regard. It's certainly not an assumption or speculation because it's what people do that contrasts sharply the actuality of what's going on and what's present. It's easy enough to see that.

It's just the way the fact stands.

You are FREE to believe that if you want to. That is why God created us all with free will.

 

[Willamena]

Well I don't think you need to believe in what's already true.

It's not like there's a choice.

It follows beliefs typically come in when people exaggerate or fabricate past the fact of the matter giving the belief itself a "life" of its own.

That's nothing I recognize as belief.

 

[Ponder This]

The football analogy doesn't stand up well. We are not talking about a game, but a belief. The person not wanting to play football is not claiming he does not believe football exists as a game.

In the rules of 'the game', the person can believe whatever the person wants to believe, but if the person wants to play, then the person has to abide by the rules.

The rules of debate are clear. You must have a proposition (a statement expressing a concept that can be true or false) that you are defending. Your psychological condition is generally not part of the rules of debate, although you are free to have a psychological condition.

Generally speaking, when a person sates, "I lack a belief in a God or gods," he is refusing to play the game. He is choosing not to engage in debate, because his lack of belief is a psychological condition instead of a relevant proposition that needs defending.

What would the opposition to "I lack a belief in a God or gods" be? It would be "You do not lack a belief in a God or gods." Can you imagine? You say, "I lack a belief in a God or gods" and the other person comes back and says, "Oh, but you do believe in a God or gods! And I'll prove it!" There are people who will do that by the way... they will come back and challenge you and enter that debate with you, but it's a completely different debate, a completely different field of play! The goal posts have been moved!

Most people simply aren't going to accept your proposal to shift the goal posts to a debate about your psychological condition.