If Atheism is a psychological position we don't need to seriously consider it

[1137]

Did you just assume my religion?

No I deduced it from your comment about "Theistic arguments" being a laughable concept. Smart!

If you cared to.

I'd say that this depends.

Now that's mighty suspicious. Almost like you didn't have any at all!!!!!

I just learned in my decade + of studies that there's nothing but frustration in debating someone who will always choose their faith over reason and evidence.

 

[Darkstorn]

No I deduced it from your comment about "Theistic arguments" being a laughable concept. Smart!

That's not what i actually said, so maybe you shouldn't argue straw men?

Or use them as the basis for your so called "deductions."

 

[1137]

That's not what i actually said, so maybe you shouldn't argue straw men?

Or use them as the basis for your so called "deductions."

Ha right.

 

[1137]

Looks like another confirmation of atheism being only good as a psych position as real propositions and respectable beliefs have reasons to believe them. Thanks all!

 

[Darkstorn]

Ha right.

I think the main problem with your... Uh... "Theistic arguments"(this made me laugh out loud, there's literally no correlation between theism and the arguments you made) is that they are a bit too basic.

And nonsensical.

More like, Hell yeah!

Looks like another confirmation of atheism being only good as a psych position as real propositions and respectable beliefs have reasons to believe them. Thanks all!

Ah, the "la la la i'm not listening" gambit?

 

[1137]

More like, Hell yeah!



Ah, the "la la la i'm not listening" gambit?

Haha I love this. "Cosmological, Teleological, and Consciousness based arguments have no connection to theism!" Does an ignorance of the most basic religious philosophy correlate to atheism? Seems to be the case.

 

[Trailblazer]

One ankle is OK but the pinned one is taking quite a time. I'm having a scan for bone density next week - can't understand why they didn't do it while I was in hospital. Sounds like we both still have many problems.

You’re not a-kiddin... it is one thing after another.

The key is to give up hoping for better days and then if you have one you really appreciate it... Like when you came back, that was a bad day till I saw you again.

In the Baha’i Faith this not caring what happens attitude is called “detachment”...

The books I've read recently were - The Memory Illusion by Julia Shaw, The Knowledge Illusion by Sloman and Fernbach (these two books were OK), Seven Types of Atheism by John Gray (no atheism is any good apart from his own apparently

arrogant

), and I'm struggling with From Bacteria to Bach and Back by Daniel Dennett, mostly because he is preaching to the choir here and it does require attention. And I have the same attitude to many other books I have regarding religion (usually against religions) - I tend to start them and find something more interesting to distract me.

I do not have any time for reading, except during breaks and lunch at work, while walking outside, but I have not even had time for that for a while... The books I have read recently include the Mysticism, Science and Revelation, The Promised Day is Come, The Covenant of Baha’u’llah, and Heaven and Hell. I am really “into” this Heaven and Hell book and I need to read it several times before I will grasp the detailed concepts he presented. It is a bit scary while at the same time fascinating.

I have now restarted up my own forum at the request of my atheist friends and we all packed up our bags and left the forum we were all on... so now I have atheists coming at me every which way....

Plus I need a new TV aerial - which currently is limiting the number of channels I can receive at the moment (perhaps a good thing

), so reading is the main option, and I still have plenty of unread books.

TV aerial? We have not had a TV aerial since I was a child. We have cable TV. It is a lot more expensive than an aerial but my husband watches a lot of TV so we have to have it. IT is bundled with the phone and high speed internet service.

Anyway, life could be worse - like for this poor girl (public crucifixion in progress here in the UK):

Life could always be worse, but it could also be better... that is the prawblum.
Right now, I do not care about anything but sleep.

 

[Darkstorn]

Haha I love this. "Cosmological, Teleological, and Consciousness based arguments have no connection to theism!" Does an ignorance of the most basic religious philosophy correlate to atheism? Seems to be the case.

I didn't say that either. I can detect a pattern here: You are not entirely happy with the opposition you receive, so you invent your own.

I.E straw man argument.

And you've allegedly reported another member because you thought somebody was doing this to you.

Delusions?

/E: Here's a quote from Vestigial Mote. It's from the very first paragraph of his last post, the post you failed to reply to. It explains the issue he's having. Which also happens to be the issue i'm having.

You never made any "theistic arguments."

You haven't even made the actual arguments. You proposed the highlights. And I am supposed to interpret how you would apply those highlights as arguments for theism?

 

[Mock Turtle]

You’re not a-kiddin... it is one thing after another.

The key is to give up hoping for better days and then if you have one you really appreciate it... Like when you came back, that was a bad day till I saw you again.

In the Baha’i Faith this not caring what happens attitude is called “detachment”...

I do not have any time for reading, except during breaks and lunch at work, while walking outside, but I have not even had time for that for a while... The books I have read recently include the Mysticism, Science and Revelation, The Promised Day is Come, The Covenant of Baha’u’llah, and Heaven and Hell. I am really “into” this Heaven and Hell book and I need to read it several times before I will grasp the detailed concepts he presented. It is a bit scary while at the same time fascinating.

I have now restarted up my own forum at the request of my atheist friends and we all packed up our bags and left the forum we were all on... so now I have atheists coming at me every which way....

TV aerial? We have not had a TV aerial since I was a child. We have cable TV. It is a lot more expensive than an aerial but my husband watches a lot of TV so we have to have it. IT is bundled with the phone and high speed internet service.

Life could always be worse, but it could also be better... that is the prawblum.
Right now, I do not care about anything but sleep.

I think our taste in reading matter will usually be at odds since I find it very difficult to read any religiously-oriented books with an open mind. Most seem aimed at those with a religious belief already.

I think it's time I was on cable TV too - but then it might be bad for me.

 

[Woberts]

I just learned in my decade + of studies that there's nothing but frustration in debating someone who will always choose their faith over reason and evidence.

That's literally what you've been doing this entire thread.
You're choosing faith over reason and evidence.
I'm still waiting for your arguments, by the way.

 

[1137]

I didn't say that either. I can detect a pattern here: You are not entirely happy with the opposition you receive, so you invent your own.

I.E straw man argument.

And you've allegedly reported another member because you thought somebody was doing this to you.

Delusions?

/E: Here's a quote from Vestigial Mote. It's from the very first paragraph of his last post, the post you failed to reply to. It explains the issue he's having. Which also happens to be the issue i'm having.

You never made any "theistic arguments."

Those are literally the arguments mentioned and being discussed haha.

 

[Trailblazer]

I think our taste in reading matter will usually be at odds since I find it very difficult to read any religiously-oriented books with an open mind. Most seem aimed at those with a religious belief already.

I used to read psychology books but I lost interest in those, now all I read is related to religion, making up for decades of not reading them at all.

I think it's time I was on cable TV too - but then it might be bad for me.

Well, at least you have access to cable, I was a little worried for a moment if you lived in the back woods or something. That could be true, depends upon how much self-control you have.
I do not have a problem with TV anymore, I only have a problem with the computer, but I never surf, I just talk, and talk and talk and talk..... I listen too.
I am not much for conversing in person.... at work I just hope people will leave me alone as I am not much for small talk.... The stuff people talk about at work is just sooooo booooring....

 

[Darkstorn]

Those are literally the arguments mentioned and being discussed haha.

I'll quote yourself:

So you deny things like "effects have causes" and "the universe could not host human life with different properties" and "the mind can have power over the body", despite them being true to our best scientific evidence? Or do you consider pretending these arguments don't exist somehow different?

Those are not theistic arguments. Those are just three random statements. You actually forgot to mention how they have anything to do with theism. You might as well have written:

"Hamburgers sometimes have cheese."

And it would be equally "theistic" as your... Again, i'm being very generous for even calling these things arguments. Which is my issue. You seem to have trouble understanding this.

But here's the original post of mine so you can misunderstand it one more time for good measure:

I think the main problem with your... Uh... "Theistic arguments"(this made me laugh out loud, there's literally no correlation between theism and the arguments you made) is that they are a bit too basic.

And nonsensical.

I.E In Simple English: The correlation between theism and your "arguments" is non-existent. I refer back to my hamburger example.

"Ha ha"

 

[Ponder This]

It's entirely up to you what you believe or dont believe. I've made my case. No evidence exists for any gods existence. (But much circumstantial evidence contradicts claims of gods existing).

Very good. Just to be clear here. You have acknowledged that my psychological condition is not a position that you need to seriously consider.

Similarly, it follows that if atheism is a psychological position, we don't need to seriously consider it (see thread title).

Regards.

 

[ChristineM]

Very good. Just to be clear here. You have acknowledged that my psychological condition is not a position that you need to seriously consider.

Similarly, it follows that if atheism is a psychological position, we don't need to seriously consider it (see thread title).

Regards.

Do you have difficulty reading or is it a comprehension problem?

What i wrote, and i will repeat is :-

"It's entirely up to you what you believe or dont believe. I've made my case. No evidence exists for any gods existence. (But much circumstantial evidence contradicts claims of gods existing)."

Edit : please to not misrepresent my words to massage your ego.

 

[1137]

I'll quote yourself:



Those are not theistic arguments. Those are just three random statements. You actually forgot to mention how they have anything to do with theism. You might as well have written:

"Hamburgers sometimes have cheese."

And it would be equally "theistic" as your... Again, i'm being very generous for even calling these things arguments. Which is my issue. You seem to have trouble understanding this.

But here's the original post of mine so you can misunderstand it one more time for good measure:



I.E In Simple English: The correlation between theism and your "arguments" is non-existent. I refer back to my hamburger example.

"Ha ha"

It's not my fault you're unfamiliar with the premises of these arguments and so cannot recognize them.

 

[Darkstorn]

It's not my fault you're unfamiliar with the premises of these arguments and so cannot recognize them.

Classy. Wouldn't this effort be better used in actually replying like an adult? You can keep accusing me of things, but they need to also correlate with reality. This isn't some contest where you catch me in a "gotcha"-moment. Because the premise of your assumptions is flawed.

Once more, my original claim is only this:

there's literally no correlation between theism and the arguments you made

I make no claims regarding any actual theistic arguments, for the simple reason that i don't really care. I'm having issue with some of your statements, which you label as "theistic arguments."

But those statements are extremely basic statements of reality. None of these "arguments" by themselves support any form of theistic argument, let alone the explanation for any of said "arguments." They are just as correct and theistic as my hamburger example.

If you were merely throwing around slogans, so we could do the work for you and infer your purpose and meaning for said statements, then i can tell you this: This is supposed to be a debate thread, not a chat room. Support your own statements if you feel they should be convincing.

But let's start from the beginning: Instead of focusing on semantics and making assumptions of other people, care to actually argue the content of my posts?

These are the important contents:

I think the main problem with your... Uh... "Theistic arguments"(this made me laugh out loud, there's literally no correlation between theism and the arguments you made) is that they are a bit too basic.

And nonsensical.

Once more, your arguments are too basic. And right now approaching kindergarten level. Why are you wasting time on misunderstanding what i'm saying when you could be replying to Vestigial Mote's post?

 

[Mock Turtle]

I used to read psychology books but I lost interest in those, now all I read is related to religion, making up for decades of not reading them at all.

It just seems that there are so many interesting books written by psychologists or others involved in related areas - can't resist them.

Well, at least you have access to cable, I was a little worried for a moment if you lived in the back woods or something. That could be true, depends upon how much self-control you have.
I do not have a problem with TV anymore, I only have a problem with the computer, but I never surf, I just talk, and talk and talk and talk..... I listen too.
I am not much for conversing in person.... at work I just hope people will leave me alone as I am not much for small talk.... The stuff people talk about at work is just sooooo booooring....

It was more a deliberate decision not to get cable or anything else - too many channels to select some morsel from.

 

[PureX]

I've made my case. No evidence exists for any gods existence.

This is patently false. I recently prayed to God for a special circumstance to be resolved in my favor, and my request was granted. This is clear evidence that the God I prayed to responded.

It is not conclusive evidence because it's both circumstantial and logically questionable. But it is, nevertheless, evidence. And literally billions of human beings have experienced trillions of similar results in response to similar requests. And they all can likewise be offered as evidence. The fact that YOU are not convinced by it is not relevant to it's being actual evidence.

 

[ChristineM]

This is patently false. I recently prayed to God for a special circumstance to be resolved in my favor, and my request was granted. This is clear evidence that the God I prayed to responded.

It is not conclusive evidence because it's both circumstantial and logically questionable. But it is, nevertheless, evidence. And literally billions of human beings have experienced trillions of similar results in response to similar requests. And they all can likewise be offered as evidence. The fact that YOU are not convinced by it is not relevant to it's being actual evidence.

That is patently delusional. Praying to god gives 2 possible outcomes, success or failure. Funnily enough, precisely the same odds as not praying.

You have a very low threshold of evidence but a least you felt good