If Atheism is a religion, what is *not* a religion?

[Yerda]

So, I would say that many folks within the realm of christendom are and were not true Christians now were they?

Tell me, do you have sugar in your porridge?

 

[joeboonda]

Then it goes without saying that if those weren't "true" christians, then america wasn't "truely" founded christian.

Do I have to make a LIST??? I simply don't have all night to list all the great Christians and all the wonderful things they did for our country. George Washington, although not perfect, was a Christian, google it.

 

[logician]

Christianity is the bisgest fraud ever perpetrated upon mankind, except possibly the idea that Bush would make a GOOD POTUS.

 

[Green Gaia]

So, I would say that many folks within the realm of christendom are and were not true Christians now were they?

How should I know? There's so many different versions of what is a true Christian that I don't know which to believe...

 

[mr.guy]

Do I have to make a LIST??? I simply don't have all night to list all the great Christians and all the wonderful things they did for our country. George Washington, although not perfect, was a Christian, google it.

I am still mystified by your reply. If we find any good christians in a developing country, is it also safe to say that country is now officially christian?

 

[joeboonda]

How should I know? There's so many different versions of what is a true Christian that I don't know which to believe...

Read your Bible, you may catch a clue.

 

[mr.guy]

Christianity is the bisgest fraud ever perpetrated upon mankind, except possibly the idea that Bush would make a GOOD POTUS.

Tip: cheap shots are best directed within a relevant thread.

I know you think you smell blood, but try to restrain yourself from flamboyant ramblings and irrelevant commentries.

 

[joeboonda]

I am still mystified by your reply. If we find any good christians in a developing country, is it also safe to say that country is now officially christian?

No, but if their LAWS and GOVERNMENT, and principles behind their laws and government are founded by CHRISTIAN men, based on BIBLICAL PRINCIPALS, then it is safe to assume so. Listen, I am DONE. I cannot honestly believe anyone in their right mind would deny history and deny our Christian Heritage. It is just plain fact, I am not going to even go there anymore. And this thread is now way off topic. Good day.

 

[joeboonda]

Christianity is the bisgest fraud ever perpetrated upon mankind, except possibly the idea that Bush would make a GOOD POTUS.

Why thank you, thank you very much, and good day to you too, sir.

Oh, and God bless you.

 

[logician]

Back on topic, not allowing the posting of the ten commandments on goverment property simply is adhering to the constitutional dictum of the separation of church and state, allowing one relgion to dominate in politics is exactly what our founding fathers DIDN'T want. Our founding fathers werE much MORE freethinkers than most modern Christians, many were deists only, and Thomas Paine was essentially an atheist.

 

[gnomon]

It was a Native American nation, until the Christians came and we all know how well that turned out for the natives.

Actually this is just as ridiculous as claiming that the United States, to which joeboonda refers, was founded as a Christian nation.

 

[MaddLlama]

Actually this is just as ridiculous as claiming that the United States, to which joeboonda refers, was founded as a Christian nation.

How so? Were the people who lived on this land before it was a British Colony or America make-believe? Are the stories of small-pox infested blankets, and the Trail of Tears propaganda that we made up against ourselves?

 

[gnomon]

How so? Were the people who lived on this land before it was a British Colony or America make-believe? Are the stories of small-pox infested blankets, and the Trail of Tears propaganda that we made up against ourselves?

Because joeboonda was referencing the founding of the United States. So therefore the native americans do not factor into this. He was discussing those who laid the groundwork for the construction of the nation of the United States of America. Not the Iroquois. Nor, as the statement implied was this continent ever a nation of Native Americans. Unless the term nation has been redefined.

Pardon me for being precise.

 

[joeboonda]

Back on topic, not allowing the posting of the ten commandments on goverment property simply is adhering to the constitutional dictum of the separation of church and state, allowing one relgion to dominate in politics is exactly what our founding fathers DIDN'T want. Our founding fathers werE much MORE freethinkers than most modern Christians, many were deists only, and Thomas Paine was essentially an atheist.

Actually what they were against, as Christians who cherished freedom OF (not from) worship, was any state forcing its people to be members of a 'state' denomination. Like if you live in Virginia you must be Presbyterian or leave. Which many states did just that, even after leaving Europe to get away from it. As the Laws of our country were founded on the principles of the ten commandments as part of our heritage, as they have been for many years, there is no reason to remove them because of a few atheists. It is part of our history. And our country is still majority Christian, although secularism and humanism and post-modernism is alive and well.

 

[MaddLlama]

It was a CHRISTIAN nation.

Apparently your reading comprehension skills leave a lot to be desired. Did you even read my post? I suggest you go read it again.
Oh, wait I forgot, religion and research don't quite go so well together. Silly me, again.

It's your perogative if you want to live in delusion, I'm sure your own little world is quite nice and comfortable. However, I prefer knowledge and research to willful ignorance.

But, if you really want to support the idea that the US was founded specifically as a Christian Nation, then I will sit here patiently and wait for your proof. I've given you mine already. But I should warn you, this young lady probably knows a lot more about American history than you, and she enjoys research.

 

[d.]

He was discussing those who laid the groundwork for the construction of the nation of the United States of America. Not the Iroquois.

forgive me for being precise, but not everyone agrees that native americans had little to do with the founding of the united states :

[SIZE=+1]Indian influences on European philosophy

[/SIZE] From On America’s Pathological Behavior Toward Native Peoples by Steven Newcomb. In Indian Country Today, 9/10/04: One clear example of how indigenous societies have influenced the world in the political realm is the extent to which the model of the Iroquois Confederacy influenced many of the founders of the United States such as Benjamin Franklin. "From America have emerged the cornerstones of the political philosophy that has transformed the world," wrote German Arciniegas in his book "America in Europe" (1980). The indigenous worlds - concepts, technologies, medicines, foodstuffs, etc. - of the Americas had a transforming effect on the dank and oppressive medieval culture of Christendom. Seeing examples of indigenous democracies of North America, eventually led European intellectuals to envision the possibility of a different kind of political order based on "liberty," without monarchy.



source

 

[MaddLlama]

Because joeboonda was referencing the founding of the United States. So therefore the native americans do not factor into this. He was discussing those who laid the groundwork for the construction of the nation of the United States of America. Not the Iroquois. Nor, as the statement implied was this continent ever a nation of Native Americans. Unless the term nation has been redefined.

Pardon me for being precise.

Well, they didn't exactly need an organized government. The tribal system was working pretty well. Though, not to us civilized european folks. heh

But, no, you're right, I suppose thier existance has little to do with the original founding of the country. Seriously. By the 1770's, they were WAY over that.

But hey, they got the casinos.

Anyway back on topic...

 

[gnomon]

Actually what they were against, as Christians who cherished freedom OF (not from) worship, was any state forcing its people to be members of a 'state' denomination. Like if you live in Virginia you must be Presbyterian or leave. Which many states did just that, even after leaving Europe to get away from it. As the Laws of our country were founded on the principles of the ten commandments as part of our heritage, as they have been for many years, there is no reason to remove them because of a few atheists. It is part of our history. And our country is still majority Christian, although secularism and humanism and post-modernism is alive and well.

Don't you think the actual form of government (representative democracy, separate branches, etc.) owes more to the Greek and Roman ideals of representative government as well as the Iroquois model. Also, the common law from England plays a part.

Also, many who came over were not fleeing religious persecution as much as looking for work. Sure, some of the earlier colonists such as Pilgrims might have felt some sort of divine inspiration, those Puritans whose religious ideals very few Christians practice today, but later colonists were those who came for economic ideals.

Not all of the ten commandments are a part of the federal code. Only certain laws regarding murder, larceny, money laundering, etc. truly bear resemblances to the ten commandments. Honestly, the ten commandments, as far as U.S. History, are basically irrelevant. They offered no new laws other than obediance to one God that most cultures did not already exhibit. They are hardly a uniquely, inspired work. There is also very little from the Bible that can be found in the structure of our government. Once again we would have to look at those great Polytheistic cultures of Greece and Rome and the Native Americans for the inspiration in the structure of our Republic.

As far as motive for the founding of the United States I am of the personal belief that economic freedom was the main motivating factor. Not spiritual independance.

 

[MaddLlama]

As the Laws of our country were founded on the principles of the ten commandments as part of our heritage, as they have been for many years,

OMG really? I totally missed that memo!

Prove it.

there is no reason to remove them because of a few atheists.

Umm, if that's not a good enough reason, how about because first of all, they weren't there to begin with, and second of all, the best argument against forming such laws now would be *drumroll* the Constitution. No, really, I swear it's a real government document. Google it, I swear it will come up, I don't make this stuff up.

It is part of our history.

Yes, however cultural history isn't the same thing as government.

And our country is still majority Christian, although secularism and humanism and post-modernism is alive and well.

And, the country at that time was majorly caucasion, and male. Does that mean we're a while male country?

 

[gnomon]

Well, they didn't exactly need an organized government. The tribal system was working pretty well. Though, not to us civilized european folks. heh

But, no, you're right, I suppose thier existance has little to do with the original founding of the country. Seriously. By the 1770's, they were WAY over that.

But hey, they got the casinos.

Anyway back on topic...

Understand, I am not dismissing the Native Americans. The Eastern tribes held an influence on those who constructed this government.

But correct, back on topic what is with people who believe atheism is a religious belief.:banghead3