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If Bob is monkey, then he cannot come from monkeys.

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Please, define faith.

Faith can be defined as unjustified belief according to the rules of critical analysis. Is one's belief the conclusion of a sound argument or demonstrably correct? Then it is justified. All other belief is faith-based (unjustified). It's a clear and simple definition that allows one to decide quickly which beliefs are justified and which are not and therefore believed by faith.

never call a human as monkey. For various reasons, for example, he can hit you in a face.

That's when you turn the other cheek and offer him that one as well. But it should never get that far. One really shouldn't mock a man until he's walked a mile in the other guy's shoes for just this reason, so he'll be a mile away and barefoot when you tell him he's a simiform.

Bob came from House of Monkeys. Hence, Bob is not inside the House of Monkeys. Hence, he is not monkey.

We don't have houses in taxonomy. You're thinking of Game of Thrones. We have clades, which are nested hierarchies. Man and modern monkeys have a last common ancestor like any two groups of organisms, but it is a non-prosimian primate, the first of these being monkeys, which are in essence arboreal mammals (hair rather than scales or feathers, womb, lactate) with dry noses, opposable thumbs on five-fingered hands with flat nails rather than claws, and tails. These were the first Simiiformes. Like the prosimians, their ancestors, who were the first primates, they also featured bony eye sockets, stereoscopic vision, and a brain with an enlarged cortex relative to other mammals.

Humans aren't apes.

The definition of an ape is a tailless primate with pouchless cheeks, a fused frontal bone, a convoluted cerebral cortex, and color vision. But there's an argument for grouping humans separately from the non-human apes, which are hairy, arboreal herbivores that hang and swing from branches (monkeys walk on top of them), brachiate when on the ground, and are prelinguistic, whereas human beings have diverged away from all of that. Still, they all remain apes by the definition given above.
 

Alien826

No religious beliefs
Ooh, a special order. I don't think that it will be shipped in time for Christmas. Is that okay?

Yes, that's fine. I plan to add it as an extension to my deck and they won't be able to start work until the weather warms up. I'll move a few things around so I can store it at the back of my garage.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Do I believe in the Spirit of Truth? Belief is faith. Please, define faith. Is faith defined as a blindly trusted superstition? Please define word FAITH.

In context of religion, it means "to accept as true without evidence".

Is it defined as a blind superstition?

religious faith is idd that.

Faith is faithfulness to God. God is Absolute Truth, for example, Pythagorean Theorem.

"Pythagorean theorem" can be demonstrated and tested.
So no, it's not like that.
You don't require "faith" to accept that theorem.

Hence, Faith is following the Science, following the Knowledge and Truth. I am Christian, this is said in me profile page. I am Young Earth Creationist, and Physicist, and Mathematician.

And seriously confused.
 

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
Ape is not a species. It is a group. And we are in it.

And monkey is not a species. It too is a group. Guess what?
I must point out that Humans are not in the monkey group, we are in the ape group. Both apes and monkey are two different groups, but together they make up the larger group "primate".
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I must point out that Humans are not in the monkey group, we are in the ape group. Both apes and monkey are two different groups, but together they make up the larger group "primate".
That is not true. We are not in the Old World Monkey group. But if one includes New World Monkeys as monkeys then we are monkeys. By cladistics the group that includes Old World Monkeys and New world Monkeys one has to also include apes. Monkeys as you are using the term is not a monophyletic group. Also "primates" is too large of a group. That includes tarsiers and lemurs as well. The more scientific term would be "simians" for the two separate monkey clades and apes. Also the "monkey" issue is mainly an English one. In Spanish and many other languages there is no separate word for apes and monkeys. They naturally jump to simians.
 

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
That is not true. We are not in the Old World Monkey group. But if one includes New World Monkeys as monkeys then we are monkeys. By cladistics the group that includes Old World Monkeys and New world Monkeys one has to also include apes. Monkeys as you are using the term is not a monophyletic group. Also "primates" is too large of a group. That includes tarsiers and lemurs as well. The more scientific term would be "simians" for the two separate monkey clades and apes. Also the "monkey" issue is mainly an English one. In Spanish and many other languages there is no separate word for apes and monkeys. They naturally jump to simians.

I couldn't wrap my head around what you meant until I found this. But I get it now. "Monkey" isn't a useful term, since the Old World monkeys are more closely related to apes than they are to the new world monkeys.
primate-family-tree-780x520_0_0.jpg
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I couldn't wrap my head around what you meant until I found this. But I get it now. "Monkey" isn't a useful term, since the Old World monkeys are more closely related to apes than they are to the new world monkeys.
View attachment 69775
Yes, and if you saw that same chart in Spanish both the apes and the monkeys would be one group, the "monos". They do not have a separate term for monkeys as we do. Our term is as you pointed out not monophyletic. One cannot properly classify using such terms. So they are either made monophyletic by including the groups left out or the term is dropped.
 
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