I asked this question on the atheist forum of which I am a member; yes, we get theists who join the forum for debate all the time, we even have some years-long theistic members who still post there.
Anywho, onto the actual subject in relation to the title of the thread, verbatim:
By any logical standard if there was any evidence for the existence of god, that would make faith irrelevant.
That faith is needed in the religious community reasonably means that zero evidence is in existence to prove god is real.
That actually assumes a non-biblical definition of faith.
Biblical faith is not belief without any proof.
Those individuals who originally had faith -from Adam and Eve after their error to Abraham, etc. -all had experiences which were the foundation of that faith (the
substance of things hoped for, the
evidence of things not seen). The same is true for larger groups -the Israelites leaving Egypt, the New Testament church of God, etc.
Faith is also described as increasing
from faith
to faith.
It is actually not unlike scientific method ("Prove all things, hold fast that which is good").
"Science" can know things with certainty without
direct proof -but not without
any proof -and the same is true of real faith.
Ironically, a scientist may have interest in learning scientific things for which they have no proof, but may not have any interest in the possibility of the existence of God -and so would not even attempt to prove the existence of God.
Many are quite content with not believing various assertions about God -but that really has little to do with the existence or necessity of an overall intelligence.
Proof that the Earth did not poof into existence 6,000 years ago, for example, does not disprove God -but only one idea about God. That is not actually what is stated in the bible, anyway -but many will not consider the bible further based on that point.
Also ironic is the fact that many actually have FAITH that the Earth did NOT poof into existence 6,000 years ago -and with good reason. None of us were there. The creation/formation of the Earth cannot be seen -cannot be reproduced on demand -and our certainty about it is based on indirect evidence.
The same CAN be true where the existence of God is concerned -but it is extremely difficult to gain what one does not even want, unless one gains it without seeking it (God initiating interaction, etc.).
Many who believe they have faith only have belief. Belief is a part of faith -but it is not faith. Faith is something one should live by -and should be the basis for the most important decisions one can make. When such decisions need to be made (such as Daniel and his friends refusing Nebuchadnezzar), the faith of many fails -because it was not true faith in the first place.
Living by faith is obeying God regardless of circumstance -and simple belief alone is not sufficient.
"To have faith, one must believe God exists and rewards those who diligently seek him"... but that is not to say there is no reason or proofs involved.
To read the bible and simply believe it is not faith.
To read the bible and see good reason to consider it further can be something along the path to faith.
The bible is a different sort of evidence -and is not strictly scientific evidence, but all things relating to the bible -considered collectively and seriously -are enough to begin to look into the matter -and to seek God. It is not unreasonable or ridiculous.
That, in turn, can lead to real proof.
God draws near to those who draw near to him.
As the God of the bible could essentially be defined as "everything", everything is evidence of God by that definition.
That is a lot of information, so it would be much easier to seek information about specific aspects.
Many events described in the bible would be enough to cause anyone to believe an extreme intelligence with extreme power was at work -but even that would just be a starting point.
Most today only have a record of what others claim they experienced -but there are many things about the bible and its history specifically which (arguably) would rightfully cause people to believe there is something to it. Even if one does not believe that is the case, a great number of people have believed there is something to it -for some reason.
Short of God revealing himself personally in some way (and decision would be a factor), scientific proof of the existence or necessity of an overall intelligence would require an extreme amount of indirect evidence and knowledge of the most basic facts concerning our reality.
As for the possibility of an overall intelligence, at least the development of self-awareness and creativity is obviously inherent in "nature" -so the development of an initial overall intelligence is not a ridiculous idea at all -and is not ridiculous as a possible explanation for the present state/arrangement of things.
