Thief
Rogue Theologian
a broken god?
sounds like op material.
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If God Controls Everything...
- Thread starter Neo Deist
- Start date
sounds like op material.
Is there a reason you chose not to do so?
Princeps Eugenius
Active Member
thats the god of the bible for you basically.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
I stand by what I have said.
Total depravity is a central point in Calvinism.
Calvinism rejects the libertarian free will. Choosing strictly according to one's nature is more in line with compatibilism.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
"It is in this sense that man since the fall “is utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good, and wholly inclined to all evil.” He possesses a fixed bias of the will against God, and instinctively and willingly turns to evil. He is an alien by birth, and a sinner by choice. The inability under which he labors is not an inability to exercise volitions, but an inability to be willing to exercise holy volitions. And it is this phase of it which led Luther to declare that “Free-will is an empty term, whose reality is lost. And a lost liberty, according to my grammar, is no liberty at all.”2 In matters pertaining to his salvation, the unregenerate man is not at liberty to choose between good and evil, but only to choose between greater and lesser evil, which is not properly free will. The fact that fallen man still has ability to do certain acts morally good in themselves does not prove that he can do acts meriting salvation, for his motives may be wholly wrong.
Man is a free agent but he cannot originate the love of God in his heart. His will is free in the sense that it is not controlled by any force outside of himself. As the bird with a broken wing is “free” to fly but not able, so the natural man is free to come to God but not able. " - Source
Thief
Rogue Theologian
got a thread up and running......a Broken God...
My religion doesn't teach that God controls everything. That's a very peculiar way of seeing things, in my opinion.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
and do you agree with your congregation?
My congregation? Do you mean do I agree with the Catholic Church on that? Yeah.
Basically, my view is that God wills certain things but since He has given His creations free will, they can choose to go their own way. God is omnipotent, but that omnipotence is mostly in potential since He's not micromanaging every detail of existence. He abrogates a certain amount of power to His creations, so as to not make us robots or puppets.
Neo Deist
Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
I answered your question. You asked if I could. The answer is yes.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
I lean to agree.
I tend to lean further.....God is watching and allowing our will to go as far as we dare....
and then some.
I suspect the consequence is pending, but He can wait for the moment as we stand at His Threshold.
Unification
Well-Known Member
The dead are the ones who are unconscious/ignorant of their potential and themselves. Ones who aren't aware of what they do.
"Latent" potential.
When one becomes aware... They awaken/resurrect from their graves to "judgement." The ability to discern, make considered decisions or come to sensible conclusions. One becomes aware of their actions, because one knows themselves. The revealing of my anti-Christ characteristics I became aware of. The only judgement taking place is in mind.
When I became aware of all of my actions. . I was distressed, upset with myself, guilty, self-responsible, self blame. The weight of judgement in mind was overbearing. Suffering. Conscious state of hell. The next step was to realize that there is an escape. Change my ways, forgive and to make peace with others, let go, release the past, and be set free.
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Cap'n MacDougal
Member
Hello everyone. It seems that the God/Free Will "dilemma" only applies to Omnimax, unconstrained-by-time-Gods: i.e. those who are not only omnipotent, but onmiscient, omnipresent, etc.
It makes for a few fun games with words, really. If God knows I'm going to eat oatmeal for breakfast at 6:00 am next Tuesday, do I possess the power to do otherwise?
It makes for a few fun games with words, really. If God knows I'm going to eat oatmeal for breakfast at 6:00 am next Tuesday, do I possess the power to do otherwise?
Handyman355a
New Member
In Deuteronomy 18:19 "And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him." (In other words they will do what they believe their own words, with the consequence of of their own words) Then Jesus says in Matthew 7:1-2 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you."
From these 2 verses it is clear that each person is responsible for their own destiny based upon the words each individual speaks and believes. Look close and you can see this manifestation in your own life as well as others, it exist. When a person trust that God controls all parts of a persons life they are turning their lives over to their own beliefs, often created by theological political correctness, rather than the guidance of God through the directions of Jesus Christ. In Matthew 13 Jesus gives the parable of the sower, plus others, in this content it says that Jesus never spoke without speaking a parable. When we read these scriptures as a parable to life we can see the actions that takes place as it is applicable to each of our individual lives.
The question we all have to ask is, "Do I believe in the inspirations of men as written in Revelations 20:11-15 or am I going to look at the words of Jesus as a guide to life." Waiting for physically dead people to come alive will not happen, but it is possible for people to wake up to reality. When I apply the words of Jesus to life I find that my own words are measured by my successes and failures according to these teachings. We all have a choice of how we see God, either as a sugar daddy or as a strict disciplinarian according to His words spoken by Jesus Christ in Parables to each individual life.
From these 2 verses it is clear that each person is responsible for their own destiny based upon the words each individual speaks and believes. Look close and you can see this manifestation in your own life as well as others, it exist. When a person trust that God controls all parts of a persons life they are turning their lives over to their own beliefs, often created by theological political correctness, rather than the guidance of God through the directions of Jesus Christ. In Matthew 13 Jesus gives the parable of the sower, plus others, in this content it says that Jesus never spoke without speaking a parable. When we read these scriptures as a parable to life we can see the actions that takes place as it is applicable to each of our individual lives.
The question we all have to ask is, "Do I believe in the inspirations of men as written in Revelations 20:11-15 or am I going to look at the words of Jesus as a guide to life." Waiting for physically dead people to come alive will not happen, but it is possible for people to wake up to reality. When I apply the words of Jesus to life I find that my own words are measured by my successes and failures according to these teachings. We all have a choice of how we see God, either as a sugar daddy or as a strict disciplinarian according to His words spoken by Jesus Christ in Parables to each individual life.
Cap'n MacDougal
Member
Hi Handyman.
That's a bunch of gobbledygook and flapdoodle. Although I do appreciate you bringing the improper phrasing of my question to my attention. Thank you. Let me try again:
If God knows now that I'm going to eat oatmeal for breakfast at 6:00 am next Tuesday, do I possess the power to do otherwise?
That's a bunch of gobbledygook and flapdoodle. Although I do appreciate you bringing the improper phrasing of my question to my attention. Thank you. Let me try again:
If God knows now that I'm going to eat oatmeal for breakfast at 6:00 am next Tuesday, do I possess the power to do otherwise?
Thief
Rogue Theologian
more so...it demonstrates your predictability.
Now if you were to suddenly change your mind and swallow something else.....
oh!, but now you will offer a hall of mirrors question.....won't you?
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
God has ultimate control. His will/decision supersedes all others.
However, by creating other creators, God essentially gave them the ability to control things.
When God was the only one with decision, God was in complete control.
The purpose for the decision to create creators was to increase love, happiness, joy, wonder -and even to allow others to create things which were new to God.
However, new creators could potentially (perhaps would inevitably) create a mess, so God uses his authority and ultimate ability to control the overall situation to make certain the situation could not get completely out of control, while the new creators learned to control and discipline themselves -and also learn the necessity of the government of God.
The government of God is not control, it is order which allows freedom and creativity without conflict.
However, by creating other creators, God essentially gave them the ability to control things.
When God was the only one with decision, God was in complete control.
The purpose for the decision to create creators was to increase love, happiness, joy, wonder -and even to allow others to create things which were new to God.
However, new creators could potentially (perhaps would inevitably) create a mess, so God uses his authority and ultimate ability to control the overall situation to make certain the situation could not get completely out of control, while the new creators learned to control and discipline themselves -and also learn the necessity of the government of God.
The government of God is not control, it is order which allows freedom and creativity without conflict.
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
God does not know things in that way. He is the most well-informed, but the ability to surprise him and each other was actually the point of creating creators.
Being the most well-informed, etc., few -if any -choices can surprise him by way of leaving him unprepared, but what you will choose to eat for breakfast is likely not written somewhere. He probably knows it will be something available to you, though -and if it is important to the overall plan, he'll make sure you eat the oatmeal.
Some humans are actually quite able to tell you what you will be having for breakfast on a certain day.
They are the sort that attempt to minimize surprises.
If you study their ways, you will find that they attempt to use a mix of information and manipulation to nullify the will of those who oppose them.
They attempt to be God-like, but as they are not God or like God in the most important ways (truly unified, all-knowing, all-powerful, benevolent, sane, etc.), they run into all sorts of difficulties.
Anyway -God is moving all things to a point where he won't have to wonder if we are considering evil or doing evil -and neither will we.
Guy Threepwood
Mighty Pirate
Since time, as we know it, was created with the rest of the universe, then it stands to reason that God would transcend time along with everything else he created- the director knows how the movie ends-
So to that question, if you have oatmeal at 6 am next Tuesday, it is because you freely chose to do so, and nothing can change that!
Cap'n MacDougal
Member
Hahahahhaaa. I know! You may be right, I just love my oatmeal on Tuesday mornings! If, however, I were to change my mind then, would that change God's foreknowledge? Of course, it's conditional that this particular God has foreknowledge.