If God is evil...

[Meow Mix]

...would you still worship him/her/them to try to get to heaven/paradise?

Or would you reject them as an evil being(s)?

The reason I ask is because every now and then I talk to theists who -- upon being asked about genocides and wicked, terrible things in some holy text or another -- basically just shrug and basically say "Yeah, God is wrathful. So?"

It always throws me for a loop because I want to say, "And you worship this guy? Why?!"

So, if God is evil -- if God is a vindictive, petty tyrant crybaby of a god that murders people to show the world how awesome he/she is like apparently some people believe he is -- would you still worship him?

For those of you who DO think God is wrathful and vindictive (and what I would call petty), why do you worship such a wicked being? If you believe God is wrathful and all that and DON'T worship him, do you ever worry he's going to lay the smack down on you?

 

[Willamena]

Wrathful not-equals evil.
Tyrant crybaby not-equals evil.
Harm not-equals evil.
Hurt my feelings not-equals evil.

Was a time I'd proudly declare, "I don't believe in evil," because it's about as meaningless a thing as you'll encounter. I'd say, "Good contrasts with bad, not evil." Now, in my old age, I'm content to let people have their evil. It's theirs, to have and to hold.

 

[Willamena]

I probably don't "worship" in any way you'd consider to be worship, or worship anything you'd consider to be "God", but to answer the question: I'd continue to (do what I do) because bad is as much a part of the world as good, so there's no reason not to.

 

[sandandfoam]

Hi Meow Mix,

Although I believe in God I cannot answer your question. Reasons why include:-
1. Evil is about humans - talking about an evil God is to my mind like taking about colourless green ideas sleeping furiously.
2. The idea of heaven as somewhere one gets into is beyond me.

 

[jmvizanko]

...would you still worship him/her/them to try to get to heaven/paradise?

Or would you reject them as an evil being(s)?

That depends. Can he still get me a billion dollars and get me into supermodel orgies?

 

[Madhuri]

No I would not, which is why I have nothing to do with the God of the Abrahamic religions.

 

[Meow Mix]

I probably don't "worship" in any way you'd consider to be worship, or worship anything you'd consider to be "God", but to answer the question: I'd continue to (do what I do) because bad is as much a part of the world as good, so there's no reason not to.

Well, I'd respond with more qualifications but if you don't "worship" in a way I'd consider "worship" then I don't see the point. I guess I'll ask anyway and just see if it applies to you.

If you discovered that God was really nasty (I understand your objection to the term "evil," though I think it's obvious what I mean by it)... like the type to set people up for failure and damnation for the sole purpose of looking awesome and powerful to other people (such as in some interpretations of Romans in the Bible, just as an example)... i.e., predestining some people for Hell just to say "See? I can make these people for the sole purpose of damning them, now grovel before my amazing power!"

Would you still worship God?

 

[Meow Mix]

No I would not, which is why I have nothing to do with the God of the Abrahamic religions.

I hear that, though some people who believe in that god somehow do away with most of the nastiness and believe in what I like to call "hippie Jesus." Hippie Jesus is a pretty cool guy from how I've heard that group of interpretations of Christianity (turn the other cheek, love thy neighbor, he without sin casts the first stone, all that), though I find it hard to believe how they can cherry pick all the nastiness out.

 

[Meow Mix]

Hi Meow Mix,

Although I believe in God I cannot answer your question. Reasons why include:-
1. Evil is about humans - talking about an evil God is to my mind like taking about colourless green ideas sleeping furiously.
2. The idea of heaven as somewhere one gets into is beyond me.

Regarding evil and gods, I'm not sure I understand the distinction. Maybe instead of the word "evil" I can use malevolent or ill-intentioned -- which is generally what I mean by "evil" anyway.

For instance, consider all the awful, nasty things the gods from Greek mythology are credited with. Mortals are portrayed as literally afraid of the gods, who often do mean and un-just things to mortals sometimes because they simply can. If you found that the creator-god of the universe were a petty tyrant such as that, would you still worship it?

Or would you acknowledge that it exists and that it's powerful, but otherwise reject it in the same fashion that you might reject someone espousing ugly and unjust ideas (like a neo-nazi or someone like that)?

 

[Father Heathen]

Hi Meow Mix,

Although I believe in God I cannot answer your question. Reasons why include:-
1. Evil is about humans - talking about an evil God is to my mind like taking about colourless green ideas sleeping furiously.
2. The idea of heaven as somewhere one gets into is beyond me.

Let's say that your god descended and demanded that a thousand babies be boiled alive to appease him. You honestly wouldn't have any opinion on the matter? And the concept of heaven is incorporated into the theology you identify with.

 

[Meow Mix]

I guess part of what I'm getting at is would you wager your eternal soul to stand up for what seems right to your moral compass?

If, as Father Heathen says, God(s) came down and demanded the sacrifice of a bunch of babies and made it perfectly clear that it was just for his/her/their demented pleasure, would you do it to secure eternal pleasure for yourself or would you risk eternal damnation for standing up for what seems right to you -- i.e., NOT burning babies alive?

 

[Gloone]

God has laid the smack down on me more than once. I would say a couple times I deserved it and the other times it was just god’s way of being a real ***. Every time I managed to get back up, wipe the dirt off my pants, and walk again. The last smack down I received though was really devastating so I am taking caution on how I should approach this god fellow after cussing him out and giving him the bird when he appeared to me last and sent me through hellfire. I have been thinking about writing a short poem on the experience. It would start like this…

My faith was once in shackles, my love was lost and everything I believed in was nailed to the cross.
My prayers for peace turned to me dying in my sleep and demons striking matches in the middle of the night at the toes of my feet.

I might finish it one day but for right now I will just leave it at that. I don’t think I am ready for a round two until I have regained my consciousness. But if you are ready for a bout with the devil or god it is definitely quite the experience and is one you won’t soon forget. If I have learned anything it is that it is better/easier to just live life than it is to put up with anyone’s bs no matter how gloomy a situation is or might seem. You could go out of your way for god and never reap the reward and receive internal punishment for trying. It really sucks. But at least I can’t say I didn’t try. I feel as if I have earned the right to live my life whether god or anyone else approves of me (it) or not. If you can make it through hell then you can make it through anything and that is just the honest to god truth. I no longer pray either, i just live life the best I can, but that doesn't mean I totally rule out the existence of god because I am sure God would want us to live a perfect life, but life isn't perfect and probably one of gods greatest evils is us. Sad to say that, but I do feel that way.

 

[Willamena]

Well, I'd respond with more qualifications but if you don't "worship" in a way I'd consider "worship" then I don't see the point. I guess I'll ask anyway and just see if it applies to you.

If you discovered that God was really nasty (I understand your objection to the term "evil," though I think it's obvious what I mean by it)... like the type to set people up for failure and damnation for the sole purpose of looking awesome and powerful to other people (such as in some interpretations of Romans in the Bible, just as an example)... i.e., predestining some people for Hell just to say "See? I can make these people for the sole purpose of damning them, now grovel before my amazing power!"

Would you still worship God?

Well, if you insist on couching god in a narrative of human lives, then I suppose the answer is no.

 

[Meow Mix]

Well, if you insist on couching god in a narrative of human lives, then I suppose the answer is no.

Suppose you're a powerful and knowledgeable being and you understood that through your actions -- intentionally or not -- you've created beings that think and feel and can experience pain.

Isn't their suffering important to you, probably?

 

[Willamena]

Suppose you're a powerful and knowledgeable being and you understood that through your actions -- intentionally or not -- you've created beings that think and feel and can experience pain.

Isn't their suffering important to you, probably?

I am a powerful and knowledgeable being with the power to create, but that's neither here nor there.

Have you ever thought about the relationship of the word "importance" to its root, "import"? What is it that is imported in order to make a thing important? We do we have to "bring in"?

 

[Midnight Pete]

That depends. Can he still get me a billion dollars and get me into supermodel orgies?

No, you're thinking of the other guy. The prince of this world.

 

[Midnight Pete]

I guess part of what I'm getting at is would you wager your eternal soul to stand up for what seems right to your moral compass?

I would. In fact, I've already done so many times.

If, as Father Heathen says, God(s) came down and demanded the sacrifice of a bunch of babies and made it perfectly clear that it was just for his/her/their demented pleasure, would you do it to secure eternal pleasure for yourself or would you risk eternal damnation for standing up for what seems right to you -- i.e., NOT burning babies alive?

Burning babies alive goes against my moral code. Sounds like something a Satanist would do ...

 

[ellenjanuary]

To understand the god of Abraham, it helps to understand the prophets. Often, in the Old Testament, the prophet was embroiled in tribal warfare before the Spirit entered. When a man's entire clan is focused on wrath and retribution, how can the prophet be that much different? And yet, often it is the prophet who pleads for a less violent path. Sometimes the prophet takes the brunt of the wrath, or the prophet is exiled, or just plain kilt.

In modern times, people say there ain't no prophets; but that ain't true. People who claim to follow the god of Abraham and get up to a bunch of nasty business - like terrorism, hate crimes, and intolerance - are like prophets caugth up in the wrath of their clan groups. The god of Abraham is all about the love, but he (ain't exactly a he, but...) allows (doesn't exactly allow, but...) his followers to choose their own expression of that love; which often does not look like love outside of those clan groups.

 

[jmvizanko]

No, you're thinking of the other guy. The prince of this world.

Sense of humor much? Not that what I said was really funny at all, but geez.

 

[bobhikes]

Why the concept of God works.

God is evil by our standards
God is insane by our standards
God is everything you don't like
God is everything you do like

Our standards and likes are not Gods.

You will never be able to understand an unlimited being, since all that you know is limited.

Your choices are to believe or not based on your limited understanding.