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If God is invisible, why did Moses claim he saw God?

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pgd

Member
If God is invisible, why did Moses claim he saw God?

When Moses saw God, Moses described God as being the Olympic Torch from Athens, Greece...oops...a Burning Bush somewhere which was fire-resistant and never burned out?

Other?
 
No*s

No*s

Captain Obvious
I would agree with Lintu. God isn't limited in any fashion. I believe it was St. Gregory of Nyssa who was said to have had a similar experience. He said that he saw God...and first, he saw blazing light. He, thus, saw the energies of God...but then he saw nothing, only darkness.

Moses saw only the "hindermost parts of God." He did not see God in the full. No one can.
 
jewscout

jewscout

Religious Zionist
Moshe never "saw" G-d in the sense that we understand. The burning bush wasn't G-d, the bush was a sign to get his attention, then an angel appeared, then G-d spoke to Moshe. The burning bush wasn't G-d.
 
t3gah

t3gah

Well-Known Member
There's a scripture in the New Testament that says that God is a spirit. And the account you are speaking about, not the burning bush, but another account I'm presuming, is when God lays his hand over Moses as God passes by Moses.

But, just because God is a spirit doesn't mean he is invisible. We'll never know either way because in the bible only the disciple Stephen got to see God.
 
No*s

No*s

Captain Obvious
jewscout said:
Moshe never "saw" G-d in the sense that we understand. The burning bush wasn't G-d, the bush was a sign to get his attention, then an angel appeared, then G-d spoke to Moshe. The burning bush wasn't G-d.
Click to expand...

I just noticed this post, on account of T3's, so I'm going to dust off some cobwebs ;).

How does Judaism interpret Exodus 33.21-23? In Orthodoxy, this is more akin to His energies, but not what He is. I'm just curious as to the Jewish treatment of the passage (if there is a single treatment lol).
 
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keevelish

Member
Moses saw Jesus before the Incarnation (a theophany). In John it says that no one has ever seen God- but this is John's style of writing - he means God the Father, who is a spirit. People saw God the son (Jesus) in a theophany in the O.T.- Moses came down with his face shining and hid it after he had seen Jesus. During the transfiguration of Jesus in the N.T. we see what Jesus looks like with out the flesh- he is described by John in Revelation- shining and white- the disciples cowered when they saw him during the transfiguration.
 
t3gah

t3gah

Well-Known Member
keevelish said:
Moses saw Jesus before the Incarnation (a theophany). In John it says that no one has ever seen God- but this is John's style of writing - he means God the Father, who is a spirit. People saw God the son (Jesus) in a theophany in the O.T.- Moses came down with his face shining and hid it after he had seen Jesus. During the transfiguration of Jesus in the N.T. we see what Jesus looks like with out the flesh- he is described by John in Revelation- shining and white- the disciples cowered when they saw him during the transfiguration.
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I have a thread about the three-in-one trick. Moses and Elijah didn't come from inside of Jesus. They came from heaven for this instance. Then they went back to heaven when God the Father spoke from the heavens. The disciple Stephen saw God on His throne and Jesus on His right side. Stephen should have seen only one being up there but he saw Jesus on the right of God. Seems like John forgot about that account or he lied. Musta been John's style to make white lies.
 
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mtgrace

New Member
when you said that Stephen "saw" GOD you are mistaken. Chapter 7 vs 55 "but he, being filled with the Holy Ghost looked up steadfastly into heaven and saw the Glory of GOD and Jesus standing on the right hand of GOD. So he saw the Glory of GOD, not GOD himself, just like Moses in Exodus, he saw the Glory of GOD and not the face of GOD...
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
pgd said:
If God is invisible, why did Moses claim he saw God?
Click to expand...
Colossians says that Jesus Christ is "the image of the invisible God," but the Greek word that was translated as "invisible" does not mean "unable to be seen" but merely "unseen."
 
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Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
mtgrace said:
when you said that Stephen "saw" GOD you are mistaken. Chapter 7 vs 55 "but he, being filled with the Holy Ghost looked up steadfastly into heaven and saw the Glory of GOD and Jesus standing on the right hand of GOD. So he saw the Glory of GOD, not GOD himself, just like Moses in Exodus, he saw the Glory of GOD and not the face of GOD...
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How did Stephen determine that Jesus was on the right hand of God if he did not see God?
 
Bloomdido

Bloomdido

Member
Moses pretended he had seen god so that his people would take notice of him. It's a common trick that people use to comand and manipulate their flock.
 
I

Iman

Member
Just to add the Muslim perspective to this question, the Quran says that he(Mosus) asked to see God when he went to receive the commandments, but God told him that he would not be able to see Him, that Mosus ( in his human form) is incapable of seeing God. But then God wanted to prove that assertion to Mosus saying that He will appear to the mountain ahead and if the mountain could withstand the magnificence of God's image, Mosus would be able to see God. When God did appear to the mountain, it collapsed and Mosus fell unconscious in awe. Muslims believe that people, no matter how pious, would only be able to see God once they have transcended their human form which only happens after death in the day of judgment.
 
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kareng

New Member
I think ......thats the problem...someone has to think and spoil it all.

I read that a Ch'an Buddhist Monk who had gone into retreat a mountainous region said that when he obtained enlightenment, the mountains, trees and everything disappeared from his sight.

So, I believe we are far from being certain as to the visual nature of God, if what we think is here, is not.
 
.lava

.lava

Veteran Member
this thread is 4 years old..wow!

invisible does not mean impossible to see. invisible to physical eyes, yes.




.
 
K

kareng

New Member
Yes invisivble to the eyes and therefore indescribable...If what we perceive or understand with our eyes as real, is not real......what else is unreal, I wonder?

Kind Regards Kareng
 
.lava

.lava

Veteran Member
kareng said:
Yes invisivble to the eyes and therefore indescribable...If what we perceive or understand with our eyes as real, is not real......what else is unreal, I wonder?

Kind Regards Kareng
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what we think we are, maybe, is unreal. some say human body is the only time machine. possible to travel. but for seeing God one needs to travel into "no time".





.
 
K

kareng

New Member
I like this statement...yes, I couldn't agree with you more.

I think we need to undo ourselves...
In nothing we know we will find the divine perhaps.
 
nameless

nameless

The Creator
.lava said:
what we think we are, maybe, is unreal. some say human body is the only time machine. possible to travel. but for seeing God one needs to travel into "no time".

.
Click to expand...

"no time" ? as long as we do thinking there is "time". "No time" is only possible when the mind is stilled, and it is nothing but "Meditation".
 
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