If God is omnipresent, He is also in hell.

[Jainarayan]

I'm confused - using your metaphor, are you saying that Water in Wine/Milk doesn't affect the actual Wine/Milk that it's in? As in it's basically a non-reactive ingredient in both?

It's the basis, the ground, the source of the wine or milk. the wine or milk are qualities that the water does not need to be water. What is water without the qualities of wine or milk? Water. What are the qualities of wine or milk without water? Not wine or milk.

What is the ocean, what is the wave? Can the ocean exist without the wave? Can the wave exist without the ocean? Is the ocean a quality of the wave, or is the wave a quality of the ocean? Is the ocean affected by the presence or absence of waves?

God is the basis, the ground, the source, unaffected by any external qualities.

 

[CapinPorcupine]

May I ask what faith/religion you follow?

Christian, I won't say any denomination because as long as the theology/doctrine is the same then it doesn't matter in my opinion.

 

[idav]

Hell is what you make it.

 

[Gharib]

Christian, I won't say any denomination because as long as the theology/doctrine is the same then it doesn't matter in my opinion.

Fair enough, I wasn't after the denomination, just the general name.

Thanks.

 

[CapinPorcupine]

Fair enough, I wasn't after the denomination, just the general name.

Thanks.

No problem, some people like knowing the denomination so I figured I might as well throw it in there.

 

[doppelganger]

Perhaps "God" is everywhere that the ego is not.

The psychological truth of theology:

Hell is the domain ruled by the ego - the demiurge - "I am." It stands in place of "God" as a blasphemer and idolater, and in opposition to the experience of "God". It is the author of Theology, and defines the contours of religious belief for "theist" and "atheist" alike.

 

[dust1n]

The water metaphor seems a little... narrow sighted. Water can mix with other stuff and become not water. You can even turn water into milk and back into water again.

 

[Gharib]

Robo, my friend. In Islam, God is omnipresent in the sense that he sees everything, knows everything and hears everything. God is not within his creation.

And he is not omnipresent as in the Hindu perspective of literal, physical omnipresence.

 

[waitasec]

the disclaimer one suggests that god isn't in hell
as one also claims god is everywhere is well, a disclaimer covering up another one...

in other word, why talk about something one has absolutely no clue about as if they have a clue?

i find that rather silly.

 

[doppelganger]

in other word, why talk about something one has absolutely no clue about as if they have a clue?

i find that rather silly.

That's because it IS rather silly.

 

[Jainarayan]

You can even turn water into milk and back into water again.

Exactly, and you have water. But what else do you have? Can that powdered dry milk stand on its own as a substance?

 

[robo]

Robo, my friend. In Islam, God is omnipresent in the sense that he sees everything, knows everything and hears everything. God is not within his creation.

You are redefining omnipresence. Omnipresence means - PRESENT EVERYWHERE.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

If so, it would mean that even now here on earth, God does not suffer when we suffer, yes? If God does not suffer when we suffer, how can he be omni-benevolent/scient or even a personal God?

Or is it that God ''knows'' our suffering but the knowledge does not cause him one bit of distress?

In the paradoxical logic of divinity, god is absolutely blissful, unaffected by any suffering, Like you said, god 'knows,' or empathizes, with our suffering. He feels it to the extent that we feel it, insofar as we are god.

I am presenting this from a monistic perspective of Hinduism. This does not cover the full breadth of Hindu thought, which includes dualistic philosophies.

 

[dust1n]

Exactly, and you have water. But what else do you have? Can that powdered dry milk stand on its own as a substance?

You don't need powdered milk to do it.




water to milk demo


Oops sorry, misunderstood your question. Why wouldn't dry milk stand on its own substance. If you add water, take out water, add water, take out water, the milk is still milk as much as the water is still water.

 

[Jainarayan]

And he is not omnipresent as in the Hindu perspective of literal, physical omnipresence.

Interesting. Christianity also says God is everywhere at once. What is the Islamic teaching on that? I would have thought it is virtually the same.

 

[Jainarayan]

You don't need powdered milk to do it.




water to milk demo


Oops sorry, misunderstood your question. Why wouldn't dry milk stand on its own substance. If you add water, take out water, add water, take out water, the milk is still milk as much as the water is still water.

But you are missing the point... water is a substance that stands on its own. Milk, however it is made, is a subsidiary property or attribute of water.

 

[waitasec]

That's because it IS rather silly.

what is silly, making claims one cannot support?
:sarcastic

 

[Shuddhasattva]

You are redefining omnipresence. Omnipresence means - PRESENT EVERYWHERE.

Not necessarily; there are ways of interpreting god's omnipresence which do not require him to be within his creation.

Let's say manifest reality is like a soap bubble. All four of our dimensions are analogous to merely a membrane within the infinite, transdimensional presence of god. Any information generated on that membrane is accessible, readable.

Moreover, what appears to be space and time, occupied by the transmigration of matter and energy, is actually permeated by the presence of god, but in such a way that the presence is not within the membrane, but beyond it, rather like a tesseract.

I don't believe this - I'm just saying that we can open up our reality tunnel a bit in considering what makes sense and what doesn't.

 

[chinu]

The water metaphor seems a little... narrow sighted. Water can mix with other stuff and become not water. You can even turn water into milk and back into water again.

Like.. water metaphor seems to be a little narrow sighted - to you, Similary your question seems to be a little narrow sighted - to me.

Actually what's your question ?

 

[Gharib]

Interesting. Christianity also says God is everywhere at once. What is the Islamic teaching on that? I would have thought it is virtually the same.

In Islam we believe that God is above his throne, the throne is above all the creation/s of God.

As humans we have dimensions, top, bottom, right, left etc. these dimensions limit us, God however does not have limits and he is An Nur (The Source of Light). So God is facing all directions, just as we can say that the sun is facing and shining on all directions. However, since we believe that Allah is unique and nothing is comparable to him, His presence is different to that of the sun in ways which we don't understand.

So physically we can say that God is above the throne and not in any particular place where you can pinpoint God, while at the same time he hears, sees and knows all, which makes him omnipresent.

Omnipresence doesn't mean God being everywhere physically, it just means God is there, how that being there is, is a different issue.