If God is our Father

[Redemptionsong]

Are you referring to the Holy One; or are you referring to the Holy One of God that is his only begotten Son and possession?

1 Samuel 2:2. 'There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.'

If Jesus Christ is the Holy One of God, it follows [from 1 Samuel] that Jesus Christ is also OF GOD'S SPIRIT. You cannot say he is only a man, if he is 'HOLY as the LORD'.

1 Corinthians 10:4. 'And did all drink of the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.'

The Spirit of Christ pre-existed the birth of Jesus. This makes Christ the Word of God, and therefore one with God.

 

[74x12]

Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Duality of Christ ... clearly seen in scripture.

Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Matthew 26:39-42
39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?
41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

Hebrews 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Revelation 11:17
Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Revelation 5:5
And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Zechariah 12:10
8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

John 19:37
And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

 

[moorea944]

1 Samuel 2:2. 'There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.'

If Jesus Christ is the Holy One of God, it follows [from 1 Samuel] that Jesus Christ is also OF GOD'S SPIRIT. You cannot say he is only a man, if he is 'HOLY as the LORD'.

1 Corinthians 10:4. 'And did all drink of the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.'

The Spirit of Christ pre-existed the birth of Jesus. This makes Christ the Word of God, and therefore one with God.

[1 Corinthians 10:4. 'And did all drink of the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.'
The Spirit of Christ pre-existed the birth of Jesus. This makes Christ the Word of God, and therefore one with God.]

Actually it didnt pre-exist. It was just making a example. Everything was foreshadowing the Lord Jesus Christ. Look at the sacrifices of the Levitical Priesthood or the Passover. A Lamb slain? Or sacrificing animals on the altar, blood being shed? Is this also the pre-existance of Christ? No, of course not. But the book of Hebrews tells us that it leads up to Christ. It's foreshadowing Christ.

 

[Iymus]

1 Samuel 2:2. 'There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.'

referring to the Holy One; not the Holy one of God.

If Jesus Christ is the Holy One of God, it follows [from 1 Samuel] that Jesus Christ is also OF GOD'S SPIRIT. You cannot say he is only a man, if he is 'HOLY as the LORD'.

Holy one of God is not the Holy One because one is a possession of the other and The Most High is not anyone's possession along with being greater than all and sovereign.

Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
Gen 14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

1 Corinthians 10:4. 'And did all drink of the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.'

no reference of verses in Torah cited to discern context .

 

[Iymus]

Duality of Christ ... clearly seen in scripture.

Lord God himself is one and is at the top of a Hierarchy..

 

[Redemptionsong]

[1 Corinthians 10:4. 'And did all drink of the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.'
The Spirit of Christ pre-existed the birth of Jesus. This makes Christ the Word of God, and therefore one with God.]

Actually it didnt pre-exist. It was just making a example. Everything was foreshadowing the Lord Jesus Christ. Look at the sacrifices of the Levitical Priesthood or the Passover. A Lamb slain? Or sacrificing animals on the altar, blood being shed? Is this also the pre-existance of Christ? No, of course not. But the book of Hebrews tells us that it leads up to Christ. It's foreshadowing Christ.

Who appeared to Abraham in the plains of Mamre? [Genesis 18:1]
Who was it that wrestled with Jacob? [Genesis 32:24-32]

 

[Redemptionsong]

referring to the Holy One; not the Holy one of God.



Holy one of God is not the Holy One because one is a possession of the other and The Most High is not anyone's possession along with being greater than all and sovereign.

Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
Gen 14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:



no reference of verses in Torah cited to discern context .

Are you doubting Paul's inspiration? The reference to the Rock as God can be found in Deuteronomy 32:4. The references to Christ are found throughout the wanderings in the wilderness, not least when Christ brings forth water from the rock at Rephidim [Exodus 17:5-7].
Note that in verse 7 it says,'Is the LORD among us, or not?
This is a question for you to answer as well!

 

[Iymus]

Are you doubting Paul's inspiration?

1. your interpretation of it yes.

The reference to the Rock as God can be found in Deuteronomy 32:4.

Deu 32:3 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
Deu 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Our God is The Father

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

His Work is referring to Lord God our Father The Rock not any other rock.

Joh 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

Luk 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

Christ brings forth water from the rock at Rephidim [Exodus 17:5-7].

Exo 17:5 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go on before the people, and take with thee of the elders of Israel; and thy rod, wherewith thou smotest the river, take in thine hand, and go.
Exo 17:6 Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel.

Note that in verse 7 it says,'Is the LORD among us, or not?

Yes; However, The Lord our God is not our lord his only begotten son.

 

[moorea944]

Who appeared to Abraham in the plains of Mamre? [Genesis 18:1]
Who was it that wrestled with Jacob? [Genesis 32:24-32]

An angel did. Your not saying that it was Jesus, are you?........ I hope not. He wasnt born yet.

 

[Redemptionsong]

1. your interpretation of it yes.



Deu 32:3 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
Deu 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Our God is The Father

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

His Work is referring to Lord God our Father The Rock not any other rock.

Joh 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

Luk 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.



Exo 17:5 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go on before the people, and take with thee of the elders of Israel; and thy rod, wherewith thou smotest the river, take in thine hand, and go.
Exo 17:6 Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel.



Yes; However, The Lord our God is not our lord his only begotten son.

They are the same, one God!

 

[Redemptionsong]

An angel did. Your not saying that it was Jesus, are you?........ I hope not. He wasnt born yet.

The name Jesus was given to the human born of Mary [Matthew 1:21]
The Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of God, pre-existed and appeared to the Patriarchs [amongst others]. This is the same Spirit that entered Jesus at his baptism.

 

[moorea944]

The name Jesus was given to the human born of Mary [Matthew 1:21]
The Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of God, pre-existed and appeared to the Patriarchs [amongst others]. This is the same Spirit that entered Jesus at his baptism.

I really dont know how your getting this. Who did Jesus appear to in the OT if he wasnt born yet?..... Why does Jesus have to pre-exist in your mind?.... Why cant you believe that he was born, as scripture tells us. Just curious.....

 

[Iymus]

They are the same, one God!

so you telling me when Christ was on earth and a voice came from heaven it was voice recording!!!!

 

[Redemptionsong]

I really dont know how your getting this. Who did Jesus appear to in the OT if he wasnt born yet?..... Why does Jesus have to pre-exist in your mind?.... Why cant you believe that he was born, as scripture tells us. Just curious.....

I didn't say that Jesus, the man, is/was pre-existent. God is pre-existent. I said that the Spirit of God which dwelt in Jesus was pre-existent. The Spirit that was in Jesus Christ was the Spirit that came from God, and this Spirit makes Jesus the Son of God, or Word of God.

In Jesus Christ, you have the meeting of God and man; you have the perfect mediator.

 

[Redemptionsong]

so you telling me when Christ was on earth and a voice came from heaven it was voice recording!!!!

If you're referring to John 12:28-30, then Jesus, who would have normally heard the voice of his Father in his own Spirit says, 'This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.'
This was a direct response to the prayer made by Jesus who said, 'Father, glorify thy name'.

What this demonstrates is that the Father and Son are one in Spirit. Under normal circumstances, the Father would speak directly to his Son, but on this occasion the request was made by Jesus to glorify his name for the sakes of others. This proved the special position [as Son] that Jesus Christ held before God.

 

[Redemptionsong]

There's also an interesting verse just after the ones quoted, in John 12:32, that says, 'And I [Jesus], if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.'

The Father has clearly given Jesus Christ [the risen Lord] complete authority over men on earth. Jesus Christ will draw all [men] unto himself, once he is ascended, and in heaven.

How can this be, unless he is of God's one Spirit?

 

[74x12]

Lord God himself is one and is at the top of a Hierarchy..

Well, we agree on that. I don't believe the trinity idea that God is three persons. God is one person.

The duality is between humanity and divinity or body/spirit. When Jesus was born a human being that was the duality. Because He now had a created body which was inhabited by the Divine nature of God as we read in Colossians 2:8-9.

For example when Jesus says "my Father is greater than I" He is referring to the Divine nature being greater than Him as a human being. This is why Jesus constantly refers to Himself in 3rd person singular as "the Son of man" throughout the gospels. A Son of man is a human being.

 

[Iymus]

If you're referring to John 12:28-30, then Jesus, who would have normally heard the voice of his Father in his own Spirit says, 'This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.'

I am talking about a plethora of verses of where the voice of God came from Heaven while Christ was on earth.

Mat 3:17
Mat 17:5
Mar 1:11
Mar 9:7
Luk 3:22
Luk 9:35
Joh 12:28
Joh 12:30

How can this be, unless he is of God's one Spirit?

Joh 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;

Because He now had a created body which was inhabited by the Divine nature of God as we read in Colossians 2:8-9.

Same with Adam who was cursed because of transgression.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

For example when Jesus says "my Father is greater than I" He is referring to the Divine nature being greater than Him as a human being.

Seems like unfounded speculation and that God is the Head and Greater period, with a Greater throne in Heaven also.

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

This is why Jesus constantly refers to Himself in 3rd person singular as "the Son of man" throughout the gospels.

also referred to himself in first person and God is not a Man or Son of Man.

Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

Mat 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

 

[74x12]

Same with Adam who was cursed because of transgression.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Big difference between becoming a living soul by the breath of God and actually being embodied with the Divine nature as in Colossians 2:8-9.

Seems like unfounded speculation and that God is the Head and Greater period, with a Greater throne in Heaven also.

About that ... the Lamb sits on His Father's throne.

Revelation 7:17
For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Revelation 3:21
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

The head of Christ is God indeed. As He is the body and God is the Spirit. (see John 4:24)

As for all things being put under His feet. Correct. His human feet. That is all things are put under the Son of man. As it is prophesied:

Psalm 8:4-6
4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

Jesus came in human form to do what we could never do by ourselves. That is have the dominion over all God's creation. Only Jesus could fulfill this for us. This is why He became a human being.

In other words; God promised all this power and authority to the "Son of man" in prophecy knowing He would come and take the power Himself in human form. This was all done to save us.

(Matthew 28:18) And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

When did the All-mighty God take "great power" and reign? I thought He was already all powerful?

(Revelation 11:17)
Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

He did so in Jesus Christ when Jesus received all power in heaven and in earth. This was done so that mankind could utilize the power to overcome the enemies of man. God became one of us to make our enemies His enemies. That way He can defeat them for us.

Hebrews 1:13
But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

So the "right hand" of God is a place of authority and power. Where the Son of man is given "all power in heaven and in earth". This is given to Jesus in human form so that He can prevail over the enemies of mankind. Namely, sin, satan and last of all death.

Luke 22:69
Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.

By doing so He can when His work is finished; deliver up the kingdom to God. Restored, complete and whole.

 

[Iymus]

Big difference between becoming a living soul by the breath of God and actually being embodied with the Divine nature as in Colossians 2:8-9.

Big difference between celestials and terrestrials but all things are of and originate with the Heavenly Father himself.

1Co 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
1Co 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
1Co 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
1Co 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

About that ... the Lamb sits on His Father's throne.

allowed to for being a perfect servant and doing his will.

Luk 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

The head of Christ is God indeed. As He is the body and God is the Spirit. (see John 4:24)

Christ is the body concerning the new covenant.

As for all things being put under His feet. Correct. His human feet. That is all things are put under the Son of man. As it is prophesied:

authority originates with our Heavenly Father himself; being the only true God.

Psalm 8:4-6
4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

Jesus came in human form to do what we could never do by ourselves. That is have the dominion over all God's creation. Only Jesus could fulfill this for us. This is why He became a human being.

In other words; God promised all this power and authority to the "Son of man" in prophecy knowing He would come and take the power Himself in human form. This was all done to save us.

Unnecessarily making circular argument. Literally and Metaphorically God is not a man or Son of Man.

Num 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
-------------------------

Lastly it does not matter the location of God; whether it be heaven or earth, he receives authority and power from no one because all things are of himself.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,