If God is our Father

[MJFlores]

This all comes down to the duality of Christ's nature. Both God and man.

Comparing your opinion and what Jesus Christ said:

John 8:40 Expanded Bible (EXB)
40 I am a man who has told you the truth which I heard from God, but you are trying to kill me. Abraham did nothing like that.

 

[MJFlores]

@74x12 @Redemptionsong
What is your opinion on these?

2 John 7 The Message (MSG)

7 There are a lot of smooth-talking charlatans loose in the world who refuse to believe that Jesus Christ was truly human, a flesh-and-blood human being. Give them their true title: Deceiver! Antichrist!

2 John 7 The Voice (VOICE)
7 The corrupt world is filled with liars and frauds who deny the reality that Jesus the Anointed has come into the world as a man of flesh and blood. These people are deceivers and antiChrists.

 

[moorea944]

I hope you don't mind me adding a few words!

Hebrews 2:14. 'Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;'

In this passage, who do you think 'took part' of flesh and blood? Who destroys the devil?

Who do I think took part of flesh and blood? Jesus did. Are you thinking of something or someone else? And there is a reason for that too. By a man sin entered into the world. And sin had to be condemned by a man with our same nature. That was the Lord Jesus. Sin had to be condemned in the flesh by the righteous possessor of that flesh, as a basis for our reconciliation to God.

The devil in this verse is sin. Sin has the power of death. If you sin you die. That is why we die because of our sin nature. We are prone to sin. Because of Adam and Eve, we all die.

 

[74x12]

@74x12 @Redemptionsong
What is your opinion on these?

2 John 7 The Message (MSG)

7 There are a lot of smooth-talking charlatans loose in the world who refuse to believe that Jesus Christ was truly human, a flesh-and-blood human being. Give them their true title: Deceiver! Antichrist!

2 John 7 The Voice (VOICE)
7 The corrupt world is filled with liars and frauds who deny the reality that Jesus the Anointed has come into the world as a man of flesh and blood. These people are deceivers and antiChrists.

Not relevant to the discussion since we all agree Jesus came in the flesh as a man etc. Nice try though.

 

[74x12]

Comparing your opinion and what Jesus Christ said:

John 8:40 Expanded Bible (EXB)
40 I am a man who has told you the truth which I heard from God, but you are trying to kill me. Abraham did nothing like that.

The problem is you don't really believe the whole Bible.

 

[74x12]

[Then as I said before you have two gods. You have "GOD" and "God". So that's two gods for the church. How can you reconcile it?]
Again, your not understanding. I'm not saying there are two Gods, stop saying that. Our creator has many different names. (Even you should know that).

God, GOD, Lord God, Lord Almighty, etc, etc. Look them up in Hebrew someday, you'll understand what I"m talking about. But let's drop this two God thing.........

[The fact is you can't. You either have two gods or one GOD. Otherwise you must say Jesus is "a god" but not MY God. Fine. Then you are disowning Jesus Christ. Not cool.]
No idea what your talking about.......

[I agree that we are born again through the power of Jesus Christ making Hm our Father which proves He is God]
Ughhhh.....

[Gal 4 and Romans 8]
We're not calling Jesus, Father or Abba in those verses, We are calling our Heavenly Father, Abba.

[Jesus Christ is not just the same today and tomorrow but "yesterday" as well. This shows He is always the same and is from everlasting to everlasting.
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Hebrews 13:8]
Again, your taking Jesus and putting him in Heaven before he was born. Why?..... And that's what "yesterday" means to you? Wow...... interesting....

You just don't seem to understand ... At least I tried.

 

[moorea944]

You just don't seem to understand ... At least I tried.

Same here............

 

[MJFlores]

Not relevant to the discussion since we all agree Jesus came in the flesh as a man etc. Nice try though.

It is very relevant in our discussion.

I believe that Jesus Christ was truly human
You refuse to believe that Jesus Christ was truly human

I believe the reality that Jesus the Anointed has come into the world as a man of flesh and blood
You don't believe this.

2 John 7 Good News Translation (GNT)
7 Many deceivers have gone out over the world, people who do not acknowledge that Jesus Christ came as a human being. Such a person is a deceiver and the Enemy of Christ.

 

[Redemptionsong]

It is very relevant in our discussion.

I believe that Jesus Christ was truly human
You refuse to believe that Jesus Christ was truly human

I believe the reality that Jesus the Anointed has come into the world as a man of flesh and blood
You don't believe this.

2 John 7 Good News Translation (GNT)
7 Many deceivers have gone out over the world, people who do not acknowledge that Jesus Christ came as a human being. Such a person is a deceiver and the Enemy of Christ.

As 74x12 says, we all seem to agree that Jesus was born a human being. He had a body made of flesh and blood, and he had a soul, and he had a spirit of his own. Later, at baptism, he received the Holy Spirit from God, his Father.

Are you claiming that Jesus Christ did not have the Holy Spirit at baptism?

 

[Redemptionsong]

Who do I think took part of flesh and blood? Jesus did. Are you thinking of something or someone else? And there is a reason for that too. By a man sin entered into the world. And sin had to be condemned by a man with our same nature. That was the Lord Jesus. Sin had to be condemned in the flesh by the righteous possessor of that flesh, as a basis for our reconciliation to God.

The devil in this verse is sin. Sin has the power of death. If you sin you die. That is why we die because of our sin nature. We are prone to sin. Because of Adam and Eve, we all die.

I agree with your reasons for a flesh and blood sacrifice, but we also know that the possessor of that flesh had to be more than righteous under the law [Matthew 5:17 onwards]. He had to be spotless before God, and that meant walking by the Spirit. This could not be achieved without the presence of God's Spirit within the righteous human vessel, Jesus. This is typified in the Old Testament by the presence of God's Spirit in the Temple built by Solomon.

 

[moorea944]

I agree with your reasons for a flesh and blood sacrifice, but we also know that the possessor of that flesh had to be more than righteous under the law [Matthew 5:17 onwards]. He had to be spotless before God, and that meant walking by the Spirit. This could not be achieved without the presence of God's Spirit within the righteous human vessel, Jesus. This is typified in the Old Testament by the presence of God's Spirit in the Temple built by Solomon.

Yes, God's spirit was in Jesus. I agree with that too. God's spirit is also in us.

Thanks for the post.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

As 74x12 says, we all seem to agree that Jesus was born a human being. He had a body made of flesh and blood, and he had a soul, and he had a spirit of his own. Later, at baptism, he received the Holy Spirit from God, his Father.

Are you claiming that Jesus Christ did not have the Holy Spirit at baptism?

I’m lost by your final two sentences.
What does all that even mean?
It’s too alien for me to comprehend what you’re saying.

 

[Redemptionsong]

I’m lost by your final two sentences.
What does all that even mean?
It’s too alien for me to comprehend what you’re saying.

Where had Eve's temptation come from? It came from Satan, the serpent, who tempted Eve through the flesh. The flesh is her body, especially her eyes. The effect was upon her soul, which was tempted to commit sin. Hence, her spirit, and Adam's, became divorced from God. The holiness of her spirit deserted her, and returned to God in heaven. Spiritual connection with God was lost. As a consequence, the Lord asked, Where art thou?

How can a holy God put this situation straight? How can He correct the mistake of his children with justice and love?

The penalty for sin is death. God said so. Therefore, the penalty for sin would be paid by all men and women, the generations of Adam.

How would you solve this seemingly impossible problem? Are all people doomed?

Since all human beings descend from Adam and Eve, they are all 'under sin'. They will all die and not have eternal life with God. The Holy Spirit is the eternal life of God. Adam had it, but lost it. Eve had it, but lost it.

This means there isn't a single man that God can choose as the Lamb of God, the perfect sacrifice for sin. Why? Because God can't find a man who is holy, who lives in conformity with the Holy Spirit. As scripture tells us, All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

God's plan is amazing, when you think about it. God chooses a woman, a virgin espoused to Joseph, a descendant of King David. She conceives by a miracle of the Holy Spirit. This overcomes the problem of human seed conferring sin through inheritance [Deut. 5:9]. It means that God is the Father, the true seed.

The baby that is born is made of a woman, made under the law. He is flesh and blood, but untainted by sin. And from here on in, though tempted in all things, he never sins. He is, therefore, the perfect righteous vessel in which God's eternal Spirit can dwell.

It means that in Jesus Christ we have a perfect human being - a being made perfect by God. He is the Lamb of God. This means he is an acceptable sacrifice. He is holy and unblemished. God will happily dwell within him again, even if he descends into the grave! Hence he becomes the first begotten of the dead. The first to rise to eternal life with God. He is there, in heaven, crowned King of all creation.

Did God come to earth to dwell with men? Yes, he created the vessel, Jesus, and dwelt in him!

 

[74x12]

I believe that Jesus Christ was truly human
You refuse to believe that Jesus Christ was truly human

Stop right there. That's completely incorrect.

 

[74x12]

I believe the reality that Jesus the Anointed has come into the world as a man of flesh and blood
You don't believe this.

Um ... yes I do. But it doesn't matter what I say; because you're determined to paint me this way in your own mind.

 

[MJFlores]

As 74x12 says, we all seem to agree that Jesus was born a human being. He had a body made of flesh and blood, and he had a soul, and he had a spirit of his own. Later, at baptism, he received the Holy Spirit from God, his Father.

Are you claiming that Jesus Christ did not have the Holy Spirit at baptism?

Um ... yes I do. But it doesn't matter what I say; because you're determined to paint me this way in your own mind.

I believe charlatans would agree "Jesus is fully human."
It is the BUT later that contradicts that. The usual insertion that follows.
Such as "Jesus is also fully god" or something like "Jesus is the Father"
or Jesus is the Trinity rolled into one.

Now what does that make a person as described by the Bible?

2 John 7-8 J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)
7-8 For the world is becoming full of impostors—men who will not admit that Jesus the Christ really became man. Now this is the very spirit of deceit and is anti-Christ. Take care of yourselves; don’t throw away all the labour that has been spent on you, but persevere till God gives you your reward.

 

[74x12]

I believe charlatans would agree "Jesus is fully human."
It is the BUT later that contradicts that. The usual insertion that follows.
Such as "Jesus is also fully god" or something like "Jesus is the Father"
or Jesus is the Trinity rolled into one.

Now what does that make a person as described by the Bible?
View attachment 36598
2 John 7-8 J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)
7-8 For the world is becoming full of impostors—men who will not admit that Jesus the Christ really became man. Now this is the very spirit of deceit and is anti-Christ. Take care of yourselves; don’t throw away all the labour that has been spent on you, but persevere till God gives you your reward.

According to your translation of choice it says Jesus really "became" a man. So that logically means He was something before He was a man. You would not say you became a human being because you were born a human being and never were anything else. So this proves Jesus existed before becoming a man. In fact it couldn't be more obvious from other scriptures as well. I'm just using this translation of yours to prove since you put so much faith in it.

 

[MJFlores]

According to your translation of choice it says Jesus really "became" a man. So that logically means He was something before He was a man. You would not say you became a human being because you were born a human being and never were anything else. So this proves Jesus existed before becoming a man. In fact it couldn't be more obvious from other scriptures as well. I'm just using this translation of yours to prove since you put so much faith in it.

What was Jesus before becoming a man?
Your assumption as well as the billions of people assumption was he was a God?
That happens when people don't use the Bible and take their answers on the assumption of others.
Again, what was Jesus before becoming a man?

John 5:38-40 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
38 The Father’s teaching does not live in you, because you don’t believe in the one the Father sent. 39 You carefully study the Scriptures. You think that they give you eternal life. These same Scriptures tell about me! 40 But you refuse to come to me to have that life.

Jesus was the prophecies that came true
Jesus was in the mind of God even before the world was created

1 Peter 1:20 Expanded Bible (EXB)
20 Christ was ·chosen [destined; L foreknown] before ·the world was made [L the foundation/creation of the world], but he was ·shown to the world [revealed] in these last times for your sake.


Who chose Christ before the world was made?
Who destined Christ before the world was made?
Who foreknown Christ before the world was made?
God chose Christ before the world was made
Hence Christ isn't God who made the choosing.

Jesus Christ is the firstborn of all creation
And as such he is not God but the first born of all creation.
Is that found in the Bible?
You betcha.

Colossians 1:15 New International Version (NIV)
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

If he is the firstborn over all creation then he is the reason why all creation exists.
He was created first by God Almighty and as being created, Jesus Christ is not the creator.

Now going back to who are the ANTICHRIST


2 John 7 New King James Version (NKJV)
7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

in another translation the same verse is written like this:

2 John 7 The Message (MSG)

7 There are a lot of smooth-talking charlatans loose in the world who refuse to believe that Jesus Christ was truly human, a flesh-and-blood human being. Give them their true title: Deceiver! Antichrist!


So if a person, people or an organization refuse to believe
that Jesus Christ was truly human, a flesh-and-blood human being
Then the Bible says they are deceivers and antichrist
And we all know that such persons do not have eternal life.

Now how can we regain eternal life before everything ends?
Remove yourself from such antichrist doctrine and follow the right teachings of Jesus Christ

John 17:1-3 New King James Version (NKJV)
Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

 

[Redemptionsong]

In your opinion [MJFlores], was Jesus anointed with the Holy Spirit at his baptism?

 

[moorea944]

What was Jesus before becoming a man?
Your assumption as well as the billions of people assumption was he was a God?
That happens when people don't use the Bible and take their answers on the assumption of others.
Again, what was Jesus before becoming a man?

John 5:38-40 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
38 The Father’s teaching does not live in you, because you don’t believe in the one the Father sent. 39 You carefully study the Scriptures. You think that they give you eternal life. These same Scriptures tell about me! 40 But you refuse to come to me to have that life.

Jesus was the prophecies that came true
Jesus was in the mind of God even before the world was created

1 Peter 1:20 Expanded Bible (EXB)
20 Christ was ·chosen [destined; L foreknown] before ·the world was made [L the foundation/creation of the world], but he was ·shown to the world [revealed] in these last times for your sake.


Who chose Christ before the world was made?
Who destined Christ before the world was made?
Who foreknown Christ before the world was made?
God chose Christ before the world was made
Hence Christ isn't God who made the choosing.

Jesus Christ is the firstborn of all creation
And as such he is not God but the first born of all creation.
Is that found in the Bible?
You betcha.

Colossians 1:15 New International Version (NIV)
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

If he is the firstborn over all creation then he is the reason why all creation exists.
He was created first by God Almighty and as being created, Jesus Christ is not the creator.

Now going back to who are the ANTICHRIST


2 John 7 New King James Version (NKJV)
7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

in another translation the same verse is written like this:

2 John 7 The Message (MSG)

7 There are a lot of smooth-talking charlatans loose in the world who refuse to believe that Jesus Christ was truly human, a flesh-and-blood human being. Give them their true title: Deceiver! Antichrist!


So if a person, people or an organization refuse to believe
that Jesus Christ was truly human, a flesh-and-blood human being
Then the Bible says they are deceivers and antichrist
And we all know that such persons do not have eternal life.

Now how can we regain eternal life before everything ends?
Remove yourself from such antichrist doctrine and follow the right teachings of Jesus Christ

John 17:1-3 New King James Version (NKJV)
Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Thank you for your post. It's also sad that Christiandom has gone astray since the orginal teachings of Christ and the Apostles. I just want to make a comment on that verse that says that Christ is the firstborn of all creation. People will look at that and say that Christ pre-existed before his birth. We have to remember that Christ was in the mind of God before creation, plus, Paul says that there are two creations. First one was with Adam, the second creation was with Jesus. When you get baptized into Christ, your a "new creation" or a new man.

Great topic though. Thanks