If God Turned Evil Would You Still Follow?

[NicholasJClark]

i dont think GOD would turn evil

 

[psychoslice]

i dont think GOD would turn evil

You haven't read the bible, mainly the old testament, have you ?.

 

[Etritonakin]

No -but there is no reason for God to turn evil. It just isn't an option.

It may be difficult for humans to understand that, but we are new, inexperienced and ignorant.
Many wonder why God would allow what the world has experienced, but it is so that evil will one day not be an option for any.

 

[psychoslice]

No -but there is no reason for God to turn evil. It just isn't an option.

It may be difficult for humans to understand that, but we are new, inexperienced and ignorant.
Many wonder why God would allow what the world has experienced, but it is so that evil will one day not be an option for any.

Yep, you haven't read the bible.

 

[InChrist]

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. James 1:17

 

[Etritonakin]

Yep, you haven't read the bible.

Jer 21:10 For I have set my face against this city for evil, and not for good, saith the LORD: it shall be given into the hand of the king of Babylon, and he shall burn it with fire.

Jer 26:3 If so be they will hearken, and turn every man from his evil way, that I may repent me of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings.

Jer 36:3 It may be that the house of Judah will hear all the evil which I purpose to do unto them; that they may return every man from his evil way; that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin.

 

[Skwim]

And the Atheist/Agnostic can choose the best translation that fits their ideology. Works both ways

Unlike Christians who need dozens upon dozens of translations to meet their particular needs, atheists and agnostics don't need more than one---take your pick---to illustrate the book's shortcomings.

Disaster, Calamity, Doom, They all mean the same thing.

Then I suggest you consult a good dictionary.

The majority is something other than evil.

But the mode is still "evil." You do recognize a mode when you see it don't you?

And even one can interpret evil to mean those things, Calamity, disaster, Doom etc and not moral evil.

Now this is sad. Quite sad. connections .

In any case. . . *sigh* . . . . . . . considered yourself disabused of the idea that "disaster" is a better interpretation than "evil."

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

How are you defining "evil"? Evil is a human construct, after all. I'm not a monotheist, but some of the Gods could be viewed as "evil" because they are the deities of aspects of existence that aren't human-centered or otherwise in our favor. But the Cosmos isn't ordered around humanity or exists for our benefit. Even the Jotuns (Giants), those great primal cosmic powers, bring renewal and rebirth through their destructive activities. So all is ultimately grey and part of the eternal cosmic dance.

 

[psychoslice]

Jer 21:10 For I have set my face against this city for evil, and not for good, saith the LORD: it shall be given into the hand of the king of Babylon, and he shall burn it with fire.

Jer 26:3 If so be they will hearken, and turn every man from his evil way, that I may repent me of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings.

Jer 36:3 It may be that the house of Judah will hear all the evil which I purpose to do unto them; that they may return every man from his evil way; that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin.

Ha, it sounds like an excuse to me, na, he was evil, only the blind cannot see that.

 

[psychoslice]

The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. - Richard Dawkins

 

[Willamena]

...plug in your own understandings to those words.

In order to see the world, you must be willing and able to look up on it with impartiality: accept the bad as well as the good, the uncomfortable as well as the comfortable, the contrary as well as the complacent. Else you're seeing, participating in, and giving credence to only half a world.

Life has no intrinsic meaning. We construct meaning as we go. Nothing is a given, not even the world, and since everything is uncertainty, we construct worldviews that are a working and workable fiction. And there we live.

But that also means that there is no meaning in life being an illusion. It's not truth or untruth. The fiction is all we have, and it is really is all life is. The good and the bad, they are all we have. They are us.

 

[psychoslice]

In order to see the world, you must be willing and able to look up on it with impartiality: accept the bad as well as the good, the uncomfortable as well as the comfortable, the contrary as well as the complacent. Else you're seeing, participating in, and giving credence to only half a world.

Life has no intrinsic meaning. We construct meaning as we go. Nothing is a given, not even the world, and since everything is uncertainty, we construct worldviews that are a working and workable fiction. And there we live.

But that also means that there is no meaning in life being an illusion. It's not truth or untruth. The fiction is all we have, and it is really is all life is. The good and the bad, they are all we have. They are us.

That was poetically and beautifully said.

 

[Thana]

Unlike Christians who need dozens upon dozens of translations to meet their particular needs, atheists and agnostics don't need more than one---take your pick---to illustrate the book's shortcomings.

Well, I suppose it's true. We do need different translations because Hebrew is a complicated language that has words and meanings that don't translate properly into English. To dismiss this I think is detrimental to an Atheists understanding of the bible. But if they want to be ignorant I won't deny them that privilege.

Then I suggest you consult a good dictionary.

Now you just seem like you're being contrary for the sake of it. They generally mean the same thing (ie- something bad/unpleasant)

Now this is sad. Quite sad. connections .

In any case. . . *sigh* . . . . . . . considered yourself disabused of the idea that "disaster" is a better interpretation than "evil."

I don't see why you feel the need to be condescending, but if that's how you like to debate...

And I'm not persuaded in the slightest that you're any more right than you were the last time you brought this up.

 

[chinu]

Simple question I think.

But I'm expecting people to break it down into What is God? What is Evil? What does it mean to follow? I know I would've

But to answer those questions up front; plug in your own understandings to those words.

God is neither Good nor Evil. Its something else. If there's something which is opposite to God, its is "Time". We are already in "Time" and we are already following in "Time".

Both Good and Evil comes out of one single origin that is "Time". Both Good and Evil makes us to flow in the river of "Time". The only difference is that Good doesn't disturbs others, whereas Evil disturbs others while flowing.

So, now the question is.. What is Grand-Good thing ?
Grand-Good thing is to cross the river of "Time" and enter into God/No-Time by not disturbing others.

 

[Etritonakin]

Evil is essentially that which is contrary to a perfect system. This can also apply to a process toward a perfect end result.

Man is of a certain nature. Human society is of a certain nature based on the nature of man. Therefore, all of us can generally agree on what is "evil" in the world. It is that which is against individuals and society as a whole.

Consider the authorities within human society (at their best, anyway). Men do many "evil" things to other men in the name of the greater good. Some stand to protect the innocent, the vulnerable and those who do not willfully act against others or society from those who would do evil to them.

Incarceration, the death penalty, removal of rights/privileges/freedoms, etc., are not "good" things. However, most deem them necessary given the present situation. Men do evil things to other men to protect those who should be protected, and in some cases relent when those people are no longer deemed a threat.

However, when God does similar things, many don't see them as such for some reason.

It can rightly be said that God is responsible for creating the present situation -for which he takes full responsibility......

Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

God -knowing good and evil -able to create perfect systems and knowing that which would be contrary to them -could have created us in such a way that we were incapable of evil.

However, that would have severely limited our potential, and made his plan of making us gods impossible.

By creating new, inexperienced beings who had the power of learning, choice, creativity, self-determination -with the potential to live forever in peace and happiness and having incredible power to create, etc., etc., God created EVIL.

Things were going to get really messed up as everyone learned. God would necessarily have to teach, correct and discipline. As these beings were new, they would have to experience evil until it got really really old -to the point that it was no longer an option.

Many consider what is written about God's actions/teaching/correction/discipline, but do not consider what would have been without them or their ultimate result.

There is nothing which we can destroy -including ourselves and each other -which cannot be made new.

When evil is no longer an option, and all things are made new -the process will be complete and the former things (apart from the overall lesson) will not be called to remembrance. There will be order and that order will make certain that all can joyfully create forever without conflict.

God is not evil. He gave the creation over to futility for a wonderful purpose.

 

[savagewind]

So there are no good people. Interesting notion. Hear that all of you out there; you ain't good. :149: No way no how.

But you knew that

 

[Skwim]

Well, I suppose it's true. We do need different translations because Hebrew is a complicated language that has words and meanings that don't translate properly into English. To dismiss this I think is detrimental to an Atheists understanding of the bible. But if they want to be ignorant I won't deny them that privilege.

But atheists and agnostics don't dismiss it at all. As I, an agnostic, have already admitted, there are dozens upon dozens of translations. And what would atheists and agnostics gain by dismissing the fact? Your remark is ludicrous.

Now you just seem like you're being contrary for the sake of it. They generally mean the same thing (ie- something bad/unpleasant)

one can only try.

I don't see why you feel the need to be condescending, but if that's how you like to debate...

Sorry if my sympathy for your shortcoming sounds condescending. But when one makes asinine statement like yours I'm at a loss as to how better address them. Would you prefer that people simply ignore you so that you can better live in the comfort of your ignorance?

 

[savagewind]

And the Atheist/Agnostic can choose the best translation that fits their ideology. Works both ways

Disaster, Calamity, Doom, They all mean the same thing. The majority is something other than evil. And even one can interpret evil to mean those things, Calamity, disaster, Doom etc and not moral evil.

I agree.....so I guess I am also in the asinine club.

(Skwim) Sorry if my sympathy for your shortcoming sounds condescending. But when one makes asinine statement like yours I'm at a loss as to how better address them. Would you prefer that people simply ignore you so that you can better live in the comfort of your ignorance?

But I DON'T want to be president.

Evil is on purpose. Calamity is a result of ignorance and bad choices, not evil.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I tend to avoid worshiping non-existent things, whatever fictional attributes people assign to them.

 

[savagewind]

I tend to avoid worshiping non-existent things, whatever fictional attributes people assign to them.

Does goodness exist?