If Human Error Isn't the Cause, Then Where Do Scriptural Errors Come from?

[moorea944]

All scripture is inspired by God, so sayeth humans and never God. God told me humans wrote the bible. This fact can be verified as even traditional yet mythological authors associated with books are all human beings. God didn't lie to me. Humans can. I have heard way too many people say God has to do whatever the bible says that I can no longer stomach such rank idolatry and blasphemy.

God told me humans wrote the bible.

God told you that? He told you that He had no say in that matter too? Wow............

All scripture is inspired by God, so sayeth humans and never God.

So Paul lied when he said that?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

You can't ever believe that scriptural authors might be self-serving twats?

 

[12jtartar]

In an Answer in Genesis article writer Simon Turpin says:

"The relationship between the inspiration of the biblical text through the Holy Spirit and human authorship is too intimate to allow for errors in the text. In the same way that Jesus can assume our full humanity without sin, so it is that God can speak through the fully human words of prophets and apostles without error.
source​

Which I take as, "No, scripture does not contain errors because it was written by humans." So, one is compelled to ask, "Then just how have its errors arisen?"

Anyone care to take a stab?

.

Skwim,
Scholars have found out, over many years, that is is impossible for any human to copy the whole Bible, much less Translate the whole Bible, without making mistakes.
Something very important to think about, is the fact that God, Himself has promised that He will protect His word from all generations, Psalms 12:6,7. If anything in the Bible becomes corrupted, it is no longer God's words, Isaiah 40:8, 1Peter 1:25, John 17:17.
Does this mean that no errors occurr in God's word?? No!! What that means is, God makes sure that any person who wants to know the truth of God's word, can easily find truth, by comparing different Translations. Now, all will have mistakes,but they will not have the same mistakes, in the same places. So, if you compare Translations, and one says something, but several other TranslTions say something else, you will understand that the several that says one thing is most likely to be accurate. By this God has made sure that truth is never lost, if we search for truth as we would search for hidden treasures, Proverbs 2:3-10.
Today, almost all Bibles are accurate, because Bible Scholars have been checking the texts for centuries. Even in the KJV, where many errors are known, the true message from God to mankind,is there. Most mistakes are, either in numbers or names, which is hard to interpret in different languages, because in early Bible times there were several languages in most places, so Bible writers used different names for the same people, or place.
Truth is there, but only the ones who really care to search for it, find it. God had His word written that way on purpose!!

 

[Skwim]

Skwim,
Scholars have found out, over many years, that is is impossible for any human to copy the whole Bible, much less Translate the whole Bible, without making mistakes.
Something very important to think about, is the fact that God, Himself has promised that He will protect His word from all generations, Psalms 12:6,7. If anything in the Bible becomes corrupted, it is no longer God's words, Isaiah 40:8, 1Peter 1:25, John 17:17.
Does this mean that no errors occurr in God's word?? No!! What that means is, God makes sure that any person who wants to know the truth of God's word, can easily find truth, by comparing different Translations. Now, all will have mistakes,but they will not have the same mistakes, in the same places.

Really! On Bible Gateway I checked 50 versions of of the Bible and all of them contained the following errors of contradiction, and in the same place of course.

Michal had no children
2 Samuel 6:23(KJV)
23 Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.

Michal had five sons
2 Samuel 21:8 (KJV)
8 But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul,


Ahaziah was 22 when he began to reign
2 Kings 8:26 (KJV)
26 Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Athaliah, the daughter of Omri king of Israel.

Ahaziah was 42 when he began to reign
2 Chronicles 22:2(KJV)
2 Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Athaliah the daughter of Omri.


And Solomon had 40,000 stalls of horses
1 Kings 4:26(KJV)
26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

Solomon had 4,000 stalls for horses
2 Chronicles 9:25King James Version (KJV)
25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.

​

Today, almost all Bibles are accurate, because Bible Scholars have been checking the texts for centuries.

Checking the Hebrew word רַע (ra`) in Isaiah 45:7, 30 Bibles interpret it as follows:

Frequency breakdown
...........................#.... %
"Bad times"...... 1.... 3%
"Calamity".........3.. 10%
"Disaster(s)"......5. 16%
"Discord"...........1... 3%
"Doom"..............1... 3%
"Evil"................14.. 47%
"Hard times" .....1... 3%
"Troubles"..........2... 6%
"Woe" ................2 ...6%
​

Nine (9) variations and in only 30 versions. Obviously your Biblical scholars, who've been checking texts for centuries, still can't make up their minds. So much for your Biblical accuracy.

Side note: considering the preponderance of Bibles, almost half agreeing that "evil" is the proper translation, more likely than not god does create evil. Indeed an interesting side of his character. ​

Even in the KJV, where many errors are known, the true message from God to mankind,is there. Most mistakes are, either in numbers or names, which is hard to interpret in different languages, because in early Bible times there were several languages in most places, so Bible writers used different names for the same people, or place.

No they're not difficult to interpret at all. In fact, numbers are the most evident and easiest terms of all to interpret because context has no bearing on them. An "8" is an "8" no matter where or how it appears. And while the interpretation of names may vary, the person to whom they're ascribed is always evident. You might want to stop making up ill-conceived excuses, 12jtartar; they don't fly.

 

[omega2xx]

The idea of an inerrant scripture is interesting because it is so easy to demonstrate false.

Then do it.

Scriptures are just text. They are only as good as the ability of people to interpret them and lend them meaning.

They are good whether anyone has the ability to interpret them or not.

The idea of some form of inherently correct scripture could make for a fascinating fantasy world for some form of story. But it would not be a real world story.

That depends on whose world is real.

 

[LuisDantas]

Then do it.

My pleasure. It is an interesting exercise that I recommend to anyone.


Scripture is text understood to have religious significance. It may or may not be understood to have divine origin, to need or accept active interpretation, or to be beyond any need for accessory texts and arbitrations. Opinions vary. Sometimes it is a big deal, other times it is not.

In any case, it is always written text in some human language and even when it is expected to be interpreted or complemented it is not expected to suffer significant change as time passes.

Different people may and often do choose to select specific passages, interpret them in various ways, complement them with other texts, and accept, question or reject the authenticity and worth of parts or the whole of any given scripture.

The actual text, however, is expected to be well-defined, at least in some canonical version, usually understood to be the original, untranslated text.

That means that scripture is inherently one-sided. It is literally unable of considering the specific cultural, historical and psychological circunstances of whoever chooses to reference it. It has no power whatsoever to perceive abuse or misuse of its contents and request correction of course. It can't point out that certain words and expressions shift their meanings and relevance as time and cultures change. It can't warn a believer that some interpretations are clearly misguided to some extent or another.

In short, scripture is never any better a religious tool than the wisdom of those who use it enables that scripture to be.

 

[omega2xx]

My pleasure. It is an interesting exercise that I recommend to anyone.


Scripture is text understood to have religious significance. It may or may not be understood to have divine origin, to need or accept active interpretation, or to be beyond any need for accessory texts and arbitrations. Opinions vary. Sometimes it is a big deal, other times it is not.

In any case, it is always written text in some human language and even when it is expected to be interpreted or complemented it is not expected to suffer significant change as time passes.

Different people may and often do choose to select specific passages, interpret them in various ways, complement them with other texts, and accept, question or reject the authenticity and worth of parts or the whole of any given scripture.

The actual text, however, is expected to be well-defined, at least in some canonical version, usually understood to be the original, untranslated text.

That means that scripture is inherently one-sided. It is literally unable of considering the specific cultural, historical and psychological circunstances of whoever chooses to reference it. It has no power whatsoever to perceive abuse or misuse of its contents and request correction of course. It can't point out that certain words and expressions shift their meanings and relevance as time and cultures change. It can't warn a believer that some interpretations are clearly misguided to some extent or another.

In short, scripture is never any better a religious tool than the wisdom of those who use it enables that scripture to be.

 

[omega2xx]

Truth is not one sided. Truth is not affected by cultural, historical or psychological circumstances. The meanings of the original words do not change with time or changes in culture.

It does warn believers that some interpretations are clearly misguided. There are many warnings about false prophets and false Christ.

It seems you are trying to make the usefulness of Scripture dependent on the understanding of the reader. That is backwards. Scripture is a tool that gives spiritual wisdom to those who study it enough to understand it. Truth does not depended on understanding it. Either it is true or it is not. The reader can't change that.


But the word of the Lord endures forever. And that is the word which was preached to you.
I Peter 1:25

 

[sealchan]

Yes one does. At least a lot of people do with the Bible.

PRINCETON, NJ -- Three in 10 Americans interpret the Bible literally, saying it is the actual word of God.
source​

So what is done with its errors? To me they indicate that nothing in the Bible can be taken as certain. All its text should be under suspicion.

.

I certainly understand that a vast number of people do read it literally. But doing so they are not reading it as literary. As literature no one says the story it wrong. They see the author behind the story and understand "errors" as part of the perspective of that author. If the reader disagrees then they may recognize that the author has a different perspective. But good literature has a way of transcending these disagreements.

If those who believe the Bible literally were to come to the realization that it is a work of literature and that it was composed by its authors in an effort to understand the God of their faith and that it drew heavily from the mythical-literary works of other cultures, then we could make some progress towards understanding the Bible properly and the errors that the literalists are so determined to ignore and the atheists are so fond of pointing out would become just so much non-sequitur.

 

[Skwim]

I certainly understand that a vast number of people do read it literally. But doing so they are not reading it as literary.

Should I assume you mean "literature"?

As literature no one says the story it wrong.

Only if "literature" denotes fiction.

They see the author behind the story and understand "errors" as part of the perspective of that author.

So the errors in the Bible were deliberately put there to . . . . . .what?

If the reader disagrees then they may recognize that the author has a different perspective. But good literature has a way of transcending these disagreements.

Only if its fiction.

If those who believe the Bible literally were to come to the realization that it is a work of literature and that it was composed by its authors in an effort to understand the God of their faith and that it drew heavily from the mythical-literary works of other cultures, then we could make some progress towards understanding the Bible properly and the errors that the literalists are so determined to ignore and the atheists are so fond of pointing out would become just so much non-sequitur.

So it's far better for the believer to regard the Bible as a work of fiction?

.

 

[sealchan]

Should I assume you mean "literature"?


Only if "literature" denotes fiction.


So the errors in the Bible were deliberately put there to . . . . . .what?


Only if its fiction.


So it's far better for the believer to regard the Bible as a work of fiction?

.

Yes. The truth is in its metaphoric reference to the possibilities for the human experience. God is a real, albeit, psychological force that can be encountered. The experience of that encounter is everything that believers make it out to be...only it is largely subjective. Reproducible and subjective.

What is being "made up" in fiction is not random and untrue but directly reflects a psychologically "effective" experience of human emotion, perceptions, thoughts, sensations, hopes and dreams which resolve into possibilities that are as important to live for as being mindful of science is important to avoid unnecessary death and suffering.

Inspiration is always a re-visioning or repurposing of reality and not derivative of it. What makes the human spirit is the sum total of our re-creation of the world into an image of something greater and more moral than what we have been provided.

Not only should the Bible be read this way, this was the way it was written. And this is the way that the story should be continued to be written instead of frozen in time like some crumbling relic.

 

[Athena Plato]

In an Answer in Genesis article writer Simon Turpin says:

"The relationship between the inspiration of the biblical text through the Holy Spirit and human authorship is too intimate to allow for errors in the text. In the same way that Jesus can assume our full humanity without sin, so it is that God can speak through the fully human words of prophets and apostles without error.
source​

Which I take as, "No, scripture does not contain errors because it was written by humans." So, one is compelled to ask, "Then just how have its errors arisen?"

Anyone care to take a stab?

.

“We are like people looking for something they have in their hands all the time; we’re looking in all directions except at the thing we want, which is probably why we haven’t found it. --And whenever any one informs us that he has found a man knows all the arts, and all things else that anybody knows, and every single thing with a higher degree of accuracy than any other man--whoever tells us this, I think that we can only imagine to be a simple creature who is likely to have been deceived by some wizard or actor whom he met, and whom he thought all-knowing, because he himself was unable to analyse the nature of knowledge and ignorance and imitation.” ---The Republic, Plato, 380 BC.

Scripture is intentionally loaded with errors, contradictions, metaphors, parables, Socratic Irony, and many other mysteries by Divine Design. That is why everything is numbered and organized. Think of it like an Ancient Puzzle, designed to test Mankind's intelligence and ability to reason and understand.

“And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.” †

(King James Bible Annotations † Genesis 3:6).