OTOH, I don't think a person who has been granted a near-monopoly by the state should be free to renege on his social contract whenever he feels like it.
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If it could violate your religious views, don't take the job!
- Thread starter Engyo
- Start date
Smoke
Done here.
I do. A person who feels morally unable to do the full job of a pharmacist has a wide range of other retail businesses from which to choose, and should choose something more in keeping with his moral scruples.
I wonder how such a bus driver would deal with other “moral quandaries”. Would he for instance give a ride to a young unmarried person making a “booty call”? Would he give a ride to a homosexual on the way to meet up with their partner (booty call or not)? Would he give a ride to someone going to see a divorce lawyer? What if someone was on their way to work and their work shift would carry over on to the Sabbath?
We could carry this principle over to other professions as well. Should a dry cleaner refuse to clean clothes if he believes they will be worn during a visit to an abortion clinic? What if instead of taking the bus the woman had a car, could the gas station attendant refuse to sell her gas? Or a mechanic refuse to fix her car because he didn’t approve of where she was going? What if she had to go through a tollbooth? Could the tollbooth operator refuse to lift the gate if she was on her way to Planned Parenthood?
This bus driver has absolutely no right to pass moral judgment on his passengers. It is his job to drive the bus. Whatever that passenger intends to do after they get off of his bus is absolutely none of his business. These circumstances provided this bus driver with a tiny amount of power that he felt he could exercise over someone else’s life, and like a petty pathetic little tyrant he decided to abuse that tiny amount of power he had.
Pathetic, disgusting, revolting.
We could carry this principle over to other professions as well. Should a dry cleaner refuse to clean clothes if he believes they will be worn during a visit to an abortion clinic? What if instead of taking the bus the woman had a car, could the gas station attendant refuse to sell her gas? Or a mechanic refuse to fix her car because he didn’t approve of where she was going? What if she had to go through a tollbooth? Could the tollbooth operator refuse to lift the gate if she was on her way to Planned Parenthood?
This bus driver has absolutely no right to pass moral judgment on his passengers. It is his job to drive the bus. Whatever that passenger intends to do after they get off of his bus is absolutely none of his business. These circumstances provided this bus driver with a tiny amount of power that he felt he could exercise over someone else’s life, and like a petty pathetic little tyrant he decided to abuse that tiny amount of power he had.
Pathetic, disgusting, revolting.
Smoke
Done here.
If you insist on pretending not to understand the difference between declining to sell kosher food and declining to fill a medical prescription, there's probably no point in trying to discuss it.
Smoke
Done here.
And does knowingly driving a Catholic bishop equate to knowingly participating in the homophobia of the Catholic church?
Does knowingly driving an Evangelical to church equate to knowingly participating in the attempt to deprive women of reproductive choices?
One of the things that bothers me about Christian morality is the extent to which Christians think they are morally obligated to supervise the lives of everybody else.
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Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
(Good morning, Smoke. How's the coffee?)
Those are judgment calls that each person should make for themselves. People are responsible for the impact of their daily decisions and their own conscience.
I'm sure the bus driver knew that he couldn't stop the woman from having an abortion. He just decided that he wasn't going to participate in it. Should he have thought of that BEFORE faced with an imminent situation? Yes. But he may have honestly never even known that Planned Parenthood was on his route.
I know that I lived in a town for twenty years before realizing where the Planned Parenthood clinic was, even though it was on a main drag, because it was an intentionally low key office with a very small sign. Never having a reason to go there, I never even thought about the place. There are obscure offices of every sort just like that in every town, that we and bus drivers and taxi drivers pass all day every day without even thinking of their purpose.
I've said from the start that this guy deserved to be fired, because he took his stand in the middle of a transaction so to speak. However, he may have suddenly become struck by what he was doing and had to make an immediate decision by his own conscience.
My point has been, at whatever point our conscience kicks in, we have to do what we believe is right morally, if at all possible - and take the consequences of our actions as well.
Smoke
Done here.
I don't drink coffee, but after seeing that I typed "reproductive churches," I wonder whether I should start.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Err, a reproductive church would be one of those churches where the women have weird hairstyles, are perpetually pregnant, wear long denim skirts and tennis shoes (??????) and all have a crush on their misogenist pastor. (Not sure I spelled that right but you know what I mean!)
Two thoughts:
- he is an anti-abortion Christian minister. Do you really think that if there was an abortion clinic in his town, he wouldn't know about it?
- if a dispatcher sends a driver to a small, obscure office that nobody knows about, do you think he'd give the location by the name of the office or by its address? The only way the scenario makes sense is if either the Planned Parenthood office was so well-known that a dispatcher could tell a driver "go to Planned Parenthood" and be reasonably sure they'd know how to get there, or if the dispatcher simply gave the driver and address and he recognized it as Planned Parenthood. Either way, the ignorance excuse doesn't work.
And my point has been that if his conscience was "kicked in" at this point, it's inconceivable to me to think that it wouldn't have been "kicked in" long beforehand if he had bothered to think about what the full obligation of his duty entailed. He either knew about his moral dilemma and kept working anyhow, or he didn't give proper consideration to his commitment before he made it. Either way, he had no excuse to abandon his duty; if the issue wasn't important enough to stop him from signing his employment contract and collecting his paycheque week after week, then it wasn't important enough to leave a person stranded.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
I don't know what the law is in the USA, but in the UK you can be disciplined for refusing a lawful instruction or order. To repeat the refusal would certainly end in sacking.
Supervisors would never have the power to hire or fire here.
Even as a Departmental manager, I could not suspend with out going through due procedure.
I do not think even the unions would wish to get involved in such a cut and dried case.
Supervisors would never have the power to hire or fire here.
Even as a Departmental manager, I could not suspend with out going through due procedure.
I do not think even the unions would wish to get involved in such a cut and dried case.