If it was designed, was it really all that "intelligent"?

[shawn001]

Evolution cycle:

We swam and crawled on this earth for a lot longer than we have walked on it. We were on the exact same earth we are on now. We looked up at the same sky and saw the same moon, sun and stars. The only difference is we were living in a different type of body. We evolved from them, so the odds are we were them.

Just as you are looking out of human eyes now, you looked out of the eyes of a dinosaur. Life looked the same, the only real difference is that you were looking from a different body. You should imagine what living in other bodies was like.

When the dinosaurs went extinct, we went extinct as dinosaurs.

Soul migration: Just as energy cannot be created or destroyed, it is the same with life. When one life form or species goes extinct, another fills the void, and the soul (you) goes from body to body, species to species, reptile to mammal, etc.

"We were on the exact same earth we are on now."

No, it wasn't the exact same earth we are on now.


Where did you get Soul migration from?

 

[shawn001]

Yet, we're starting to be able to tweak evolution to our advantage. So, if it was designed it wasn't designed as well as it could have been. Of course the whole design is creationism repackaged.

Dr. Peter H. Diamandis — Intelligent Self-directed Evolution

 

[FearGod]

I've noticed while reading this section that a lot of arguments seem to be based in the idea that life on this planet is so complex and improbable that it is believed that the only logical conclusion is that it must have been created by some intelligent being.

But then I have to wonder about all the species which have gone extinct. Were these screw ups?

What about the dinosaurs? Did God at some point say "oops" and decide that all those dinosaurs gotta go?

If it's an "intelligent design," does it mean that it's more of an "experimental" design with a lot of trial and error? Even if we assume that the "designer" is actively interfering and micromanaging that process, wouldn't that still imply evolution on some level?

Maybe there were a job to be achieved by them at that period of time.

 

[shawn001]

Maybe there were a job to be achieved by them at that period of time.

A job? Like evolving into birds.

Dinosaurs were successful for 180 million years, I am not sure humans will last that long for quite a few reasons.

We have the ability though to counter a meteor strike and not end up with the same fate they did.

 

[FearGod]

A job? Like evolving into birds.

Dinosaurs were successful for 180 million years, I am not sure humans will last that long for quite a few reasons.

We have the ability though to counter a meteor strike and not end up with the same fate they did.

They evolved and not went extinct, similar to the chimp-human common ancestor..

 

[Unification]

"We were on the exact same earth we are on now."

No, it wasn't the exact same earth we are on now.


Where did you get Soul migration from?

Which earth were we on?

 

[Unification]

And I wish to add in addition to my last reply.....

I believe the bias is more often in the opposite direction; that many people have developed an emotional dislike to anything that smacks of God, spirituality or the paranormal. I find an emotional resistance in many people (not a logical consideration). They will jump immediately to a negative position.

I agree.

Evolution evolves consciously/spiritually too . Not just animalistically.

 

[Ouroboros]

"We were on the exact same earth we are on now."

No, it wasn't the exact same earth we are on now.

That is so true. Most people don't know that our planet has gone through several transformations. The air was different, and the landscape as well. We would've had problems surviving in several of those eras, just because it wasn't "terraformed" to fit humans. And right now, the planet is changing again (our fault or not), and we're going to have trouble living here in the future.

 

[Ouroboros]

Which earth were we on?

What he meant that Earth has changed. "Exact same Earth" can be interpreted as "it hasn't changed." But I assume, after your response here, that you just mean "it's the same place, even if it has changed drastically."

 

[Stevicus]

Evolution cycle:

We swam and crawled on this earth for a lot longer than we have walked on it. We were on the exact same earth we are on now. We looked up at the same sky and saw the same moon, sun and stars. The only difference is we were living in a different type of body. We evolved from them, so the odds are we were them.

Just as you are looking out of human eyes now, you looked out of the eyes of a dinosaur. Life looked the same, the only real difference is that you were looking from a different body. You should imagine what living in other bodies was like.

When the dinosaurs went extinct, we went extinct as dinosaurs.

Soul migration: Just as energy cannot be created or destroyed, it is the same with life. When one life form or species goes extinct, another fills the void, and the soul (you) goes from body to body, species to species, reptile to mammal, etc.

I suppose I can try to imagine living as a dinosaur, although I have no memory of living in any body other than the one I'm currently in.

I haven't found much compelling evidence for the existence of a soul. When the body dies, the energy is still there, which would presumably be consumed and utilized by other life forms. Worms or insects may derive energy from consuming my dead carcass, so they may subsist off of "my" energy, but it wouldn't really be mine anymore. It wouldn't be "me."

 

[Riverwolf]

We have the ability though to counter a meteor strike and not end up with the same fate they did.

To be fair, the asteroid (asteroids? I've heard it might have been a double-whammy) was really just the final nail in the coffin. Earth was in pretty bad shape for quite some time before it hit, due to heightened volcanic activity. We can stop an asteroid, but I'm not so sure we'd be able to do much about that kind of increased volcanic activity (and NO, for those wondering, I'm not talking about the Yellowstone caldera).

They evolved and not went extinct, similar to the chimp-human common ancestor..

All non-avian dinosaurs went extinct. Even most avian dinosaurs went extinct. Only a small number of avian dinosaurs survived to evolve into modern birds.

Or perhaps you can tell me what the modern descendent of Triceratops is?

 

[FearGod]

All non-avian dinosaurs went extinct. Even most avian dinosaurs went extinct. Only a small number of avian dinosaurs survived to evolve into modern birds.

Or perhaps you can tell me what the modern descendent of Triceratops is?

Tell me where is the fossils for the common ancestor of chimps and humans.

 

[Riverwolf]

Tell me where is the fossils for the common ancestor of chimps and humans.

Solve for x: 2x = 4.

 

[FearGod]

Solve for x: 2x = 4.

We aren't dealing with numbers but with facts.

even if we know that the missing number is 2, but what was 2 for, was it for bananas, oranges, men....etc

 

[Riverwolf]

We aren't dealing with numbers but with facts.

even if we know that the missing number is 2, but what was 2 for, was it for bananas, oranges, men....etc

The principle is the same. An unknown variable (and yes, facts are variables in logical deduction) being made known based on given information (and yes, facts count as information).

We know that there was a common ancestor between our two species, like we know the number is 2, because there's enough information around it to make this logical conclusion. We don't know what that species was, like whether the 2 stands for oranges or bananas.

Fact: the scientific consensus is always open to change and correction given compelling new information.
Fact: "I don't know, yet" is perfectly fine in the sciences.
Fact: there is genetic change from generation to generation. You have to recognize this as true if you recognize that we look different from our parents, that breeding programs exist, etc.
Fact: we have evidence of life on this planet going back at least 3.7 billion years, because that's the age of the oldest fossil found. We know this because of a variety of accurate measurements, none of which would be good enough on their own but taken together can lead us to reasonably accurate conclusions (always subject to revision given new information). Side note: yes, I find it kinda odd that we have fossils going back that far, when I'd expect plate tectonics to have melted any rock from that far back by now, based on the information I have personally. EDIT: A bit of research tells me that the exact age of life on Earth is still contested.
Fact: there are lots of genetic similarities between all life on this planet, including humans
Fact: all of this is predicted by the theory of biological evolution via natural selection.
Fact: if biological evolution via natural selection didn't happen, breeding programs wouldn't exist, and neither would modern medicines work.

Based on all these, the only reasonable conclusion is that common ancestors exist between species, and that all life on Earth shares a single common ancestor in the far distant past. Sure there's a few problems with the details of how, but these problems aren't, in any way, indicative that this process doesn't happen.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

I've noticed while reading this section that a lot of arguments seem to be based in the idea that life on this planet is so complex and improbable that it is believed that the only logical conclusion is that it must have been created by some intelligent being.

But then I have to wonder about all the species which have gone extinct. Were these screw ups?

What about the dinosaurs? Did God at some point say "oops" and decide that all those dinosaurs gotta go?

If it's an "intelligent design," does it mean that it's more of an "experimental" design with a lot of trial and error? Even if we assume that the "designer" is actively interfering and micromanaging that process, wouldn't that still imply evolution on some level?

I think that's the majority position, that evolution takes place according to a blueprint, belief in 'fundamentalist' creationism or evolutionism are both minority positions right?

 

[gnostic]

God is supposed to perfect and all-knowing.

If he need to experiment than he is not intelligent, not all-knowing. The advocates of ID (creationists) really should call it "really, really stupid design". I certainly wouldn't be against that name, since it reflect the people from Discovery Institute.

 

[Ouroboros]

God is supposed to perfect and all-knowing.

If he need to experiment than he is not intelligent, not all-knowing. The advocates of ID (creationists) really should call it "really, really stupid design". I certainly would be against that, since it reflect the people from Discovery Institute.

RRSD then, instead of ID.

 

[gnostic]

RRSD then, instead of ID.

Yep, that's it!

 

[shawn001]

To be fair, the asteroid (asteroids? I've heard it might have been a double-whammy) was really just the final nail in the coffin. Earth was in pretty bad shape for quite some time before it hit, due to heightened volcanic activity. We can stop an asteroid, but I'm not so sure we'd be able to do much about that kind of increased volcanic activity (and NO, for those wondering, I'm not talking about the Yellowstone caldera).



All non-avian dinosaurs went extinct. Even most avian dinosaurs went extinct. Only a small number of avian dinosaurs survived to evolve into modern birds.

Or perhaps you can tell me what the modern descendent of Triceratops is?

Yes the strike was the final nail, the India traps was erupting as well at the time.

The Siberian traps caused an even bigger extinction, the Permian mass extinction.

I am sure you have seen what they just found under Yellowstone?

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Deep beneath Yellowstone National Park, one of the world's most dynamic volcanic systems, lies an enormous, previously unknown reservoir of hot, partly molten rock big enough to fill up the Grand Canyon 11 times, scientists say."

Hot times at Yellowstone: huge magma chamber found deeply buried| Reuters