If Jesus died for our sins....

[waitasec]

- Can you explain what a life of divinity means? Same applies to the ability to imagine eternity?

Yes.

 

[ryanam]

Yes.

And yes

Did you knowingly create "me?" If no, or akin to 'not sure,' then your judgment might not work like you think. How I understand divinity (aka Reason) is you are only judging yourself. Kinda bizarre, if you think about it the perspective of separation. What? I'm not really judging myself. That's horsepucky.

I didn't create you but I can judge you if I wish. That's one of the perks of having a free mind. In the same manner that you're judging me towards the end of your post.

I can still recall when I believed in this very shallow version of forgiveness. It's kinda cute really.

But you wont respond to those two first statements? How religious of you.

I didn't create you but I can judge you if I wish. That's one of the perks of having a free mind. In the same manner that you're judging me towards the end of your post.

Lets stop with the judgment though... I'm not judging anyone. Judgment is for those who are insecure about their own standards.

You are nobody to call me shallow. I care a great deal about the wellbeing of this planet and it's people.

It's kinda cute that I'm able to think for myself without being instructed, using words like divinity (which ISN'T aka reason... divine means of or pertaining to a god. Reason means something completely different) and eternity?

I think it's kinda cute that you believe in a man in the sky, in the same way I used to believe in Santa Claus but grew out of it. It think it's kinda cute that you think there's a place you go to when you die where you can be happy and eat as much candy as you want forever and ever.

You believe in stories which were read to you when you were younger and you never grew out of them.

 

[horizon_mj1]

Absolute conjecture.

How can anyone know what happens when you die? They're all still alive aren't they?

If anyone tells you that they KNOW what happens when they die, they're lying. The reason I know this? Because I don't know what happens when you die and nobody else has mental abilities beyond mine.

WOW!! Hate to tell ya, but do your research; there have been several documented cases of people who have died, and came back to life; look up NDE and there is also logical "neurological" research that may explain experiences, but this does not negate death- then - back to life

 

[horizon_mj1]

-Can you explain what a life of divinity means? Same applies to the ability to imagine eternity?

Endless Energy; do you have a "personal' concept of what Eternity means?

- I have the right to judge whatever I feel needs judging. Again, your assumption that I'm judging what I didn't create (whatever that is) means nothing to me.

You do not know what it is "you did not create"? - The Universe, unless you are keeping the Truth from everyone

- I'm not asking anyone for forgiveness and I have nothing to feel remorseful about. I've never committed a crime and like I said, I lead a good, worthwhile life. By worthwhile, I refer to a job that genuinely helps people.

It sounds to me like you do not have anything to worry about. Forgiveness comes in different forms, regret being one of them. IMO it would be a much better world if people would just remember simple pleasantries.

It sounds as though you provide information based on what people have told you and what you have read and that information has no bearing on real life or the things that are really important.

I take severe offense to that. I speak from experience; once again do some research before you assume (I wrote assume, not judge).

 

[no-body]

WOW!! Hate to tell ya, but do your research; there have been several documented cases of people who have died, and came back to life; look up NDE and there is also logical "neurological" research that may explain experiences, but this does not negate death- then - back to life

"Near death" is the key. Invariably those who really die for a few minutes and then are brought back report nothing at all. It is like being asleep and waking back up.

 

[Acim]

But you wont respond to those two first statements? How religious of you.

But I did respond. How ignorant to not notice that.

I didn't create you but I can judge you if I wish. That's one of the perks of having a free mind. In the same manner that you're judging me towards the end of your post.

Correct. "Judge not, lest ye be judged" is not in any way taking away from 'freedom' to judge. It is helping one to understand how judgment actually works, rather than the delusional alternative.

Lets stop with the judgment though... I'm not judging anyone. Judgment is for those who are insecure about their own standards.

Glad to see you're not judging anyone who is insecure of their own standards. Me too, I'm done judging. Judgment is for shallow people who don't care a great deal about the well being of this planet and it's people.

You are nobody to call me shallow. I care a great deal about the wellbeing of this planet and it's people.

I was judging (past) me as shallow. My apologies for your identifying with that shallowness.

It's kinda cute that I'm able to think ...?

Hmmm, not sure why you picked up on this as if it were about you. That's kinda cute too.

I think it's kinda cute that you believe in a man in the sky, in the same way I used to believe in Santa Claus but grew out of it.

That is kinda cute. Especially since you apparently haven't read any of my other posts where I haven't, even a little bit, claimed God to be something out there, over yonder. Cute that you think of 'me' in that way.

It think it's kinda cute that you think there's a place you go to when you die where you can be happy and eat as much candy as you want forever and ever.

That is kinda cute. Even if I haven't implied it, it is cute. Cute like how you believe flying purple kites makes the law of motion look and act like wood.

You believe in stories which were read to you when you were younger and you never grew out of them.

Again, perhaps you missed the posts where I too was once an atheist / agnostic type.

And then I grew up.

 

[pwfaith]

Hi All,

Genuine question here.

I want to ask about a term which I hear a lot by religious people: Jesus died for our sins (or similar).

This gives the impression that mankind should feel lucky that he did die for our sins. Fine... no debate there.

My question is what would have happened if he HADN'T died for our sins?

Now, I've lived a decent life so far. I pride myself on being a moral person. Unfortunately, I'll be going to hell though. Again... fine. People who believe that, believe it.

If I have a great life and die at 80, and then go to hell what would have been the disadvantage of him not dying for my sins?

Maybe I've got all this twisted up.

Thanks!

I don't feel lucky. I feel honored and humbled. By the world's standards, I'm a good person. I do volunteer work. I have never been in trouble with the law, not so much as a speeding ticket. I make meals for friends. Usually pretty nice, patient, giving. However by God's standards I am not a good person. I have lied, even a little white lie is still a lie, gotten angry, yelled at my children, been selfish, spoken harshly to my husband, had impure thoughts, cheated, stolen (it was a pencil but it was still stealing), etc. Life is filled with standards. We have standards of measurement for time, weight, size, length, distance, etc. Standards make life easier by providing a commonly agreed upon reference for measurement. However often when it comes to morals and "goodness" we try to create our own standards. God has provided his standards for us. When there are no standards everybody thinks they are right and there can be a lot of misunderstanding and arguments. Its hard to compare anything unless you have a standard of comparison. The Bible is a standard to evaluate a person's life. We can compare ourselves with God's law, with God, and with Christ. When we look at God's standard we realize that none of us measure up. Not of us can meet his standards. We learn what is right and wrong and because we can compare ourselves to God's standard we know we have done things that are wrong. The Bible is a standard for living, for life. But no matter how far we fall short, Jesus has already bridged the gap between where we are and the standard of God. He has filled the different so that God can accept us according to his standard of righteousness.

Let me share with you about my FIL. My FIL is 70 years old. My husband and I have been married for 12 yrs this Sunday. When I first met my FIL, he was a very proud man, also rather critical. He criticized everything. And sometimes not a very nice man but he considered himself a good person. We would joke with him about him thinking he was perfect. A part of him, truly saw himself as perfect, or at least very close to it. He was measuring himself against the world though. While he was not always nice and admitted he had done things wrong, when compared to some people in the world (Hitler, people on death row, etc) he did look pretty good. Over time, he began to see this is not who he should be comparing himself to but rather God. When we compare ourselves to God - the one who IS perfect - we are not moral or good at all. Yet Jesus was, Jesus was perfect and good. This is why I feel humbled and honored, that in his sinlessness and complete perfection gave himself for me. *I* deserve to be crucified on that cross, not him. Yet he did it, for me. Why?!?!? Love. Pure, perfect love! "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: while we were yet sinners Christ died for us." Romans 5:8

I think you already know the answer to your question "would have happened if he HADN'T died for our sins" Hell was created for the fallen angels, not us. It was not God's intent for us to suffer those consequences for sin. God cannot look upon sin. We are all sinful. When we say "yes, I accept that Jesus died for me" We become righteous in the eyes of God, note that we are not actually righteous but God sees Jesus payment for those sins, where a payment was due, it has been paid. His death is in vain if we do not accept it, and we suffer the consequences unnecessarily.

(I am not telling you to believe any of this, I am only stating this is what I believe, in response to your question)
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[horizon_mj1]

"Near death" is the key. Invariably those who really die for a few minutes and then are brought back report nothing at all. It is like being asleep and waking back up.

Well I honestly do not know who you have talked to, but I as well as several other people have had an NDE with memory of the Experience; not every person who had an NDE has had the same experience, but there may be a Scientific cause due to lack of oxygen in the brain or the disruption of firing neurons. Unless you yourself have died and come back with a memory of what it was like, who are you to judge? Are you trying to say millions of people lie? If anyone would lie, why? (Such a traumatic incident dramatically changes your life, these changes are not easy to adjust to and not always welcome)

 

[horizon_mj1]

Am I the only one who feels that Humanity should be ashamed of themselves if someone did die to allow us the ability to forgive and feel remorse? Am I the only one who feels that possibly Humanity has taken extreme advantage of this "gift" or "allowance" of basic Human Instinct (one in which is ignored all too often)?