If Jesus returned to this world, how would you know it was Jesus?

[Truthseeker]

A very minor point, but the verses you cite above are actually 75:37-40. As regards the last verse, I prefer the translation: 'Is not He Able to give life to the dead?' Of course, you can still interpret this spiritually. But at the start of this chapter, Allah says: 'Does man think that We shall not assemble his bones? Yes, We are Able to put together in perfect order the tips of his fingers.' To me, this is quite clearly a reference to a physical resurrection. So the most powerful thing to me is raising those who have physically died to an eternal physical life after death.

In the same surah He says:

And the sun and the moon shall be together,
Muhammad, "The Qur'an", 75.11

Is this to be taken literally, too? Never mind the number of the verses, it is an irritating fact that different translations have different verse numbers.

To me, this reflects the oneness of Muhammad and the Imams (though it does say one moon, perhaps meaning Ali), and on another level the oneness of Baha'u'llah and 'Abdu'l-Baha.

 

[Truthseeker]

I prefer to interpret these verses as a warning that the Day of Resurrection may come very soon, so be prepared for it.

Okay.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Is this to be taken literally, too?

Oh, I think so, absolutely!

'He asks: When will be this Day of Resurrection? So, when the sight shall be dazed. And the moon will be eclipsed. And the sun and moon will be joined together. On that Day, man will say: Where to flee? No! There is no refuge! Unto your Lord will be the place of rest that Day. On that Day man will be informed of what he sent forward, and what he left behind. Nay! Man will be a witness against himself. Though he may put forth his excuses.' (Qur'an 75:6-15)

 

[Mister Emu]

Sorry for the late response, Trailblazer.

Where in the New Testament did Jesus say “He” was going to return to this world?

"I go away and come again unto you." John 14:28

So, do you agree that there are two men involved, as can be seen in the following verses, Jesus and the Son of man who will come in the glory of his Father with the holy angels?

No, that would be three men. I think there are only two men. The man who is ashamed of Jesus, and Jesus who will be ashamed of that man when He comes again.

Jesus was... the Son of Man

So, Jesus was the Son of Man when He talked about the Son of Man, but when He talks about the Son of Man returning it isn't Him.

It was not Jesus who said that

\
The Apocalypse of John is directly attributed to Jesus.

Baha’u’llah did not say "Here is Christ"

He was the return of the Christ Spirit

Like I said, I hope you understand my confusion.

Baha’u’llah was the return of the Son of Man

But, not the Son of Man who is recognized by all, seen by everyone from east to west, who comes in the clouds with the power and authority of the Father and who makes all of the people of the world weep? So, if that Son of Man isn't Jesus (because Jesus isn't coming back) and isn't Baha'u'llah coming back, does Baha'u'llah speak to who that is?

Again, I hope you understand my confusion and thank for any help clearing it up.

 

[Trailblazer]

"I go away and come again unto you." John 14:28

But let's look at John 14:28 in the context of John 14.

Jesus said He would pray to the Father would give you another Comforter, and then Jesus said that He would not leave you comfortless, He would come to you (which is congruent with all the other verses in John 14, 15 and 16 wherein Jesus said that He would send the Comforter from the Father.) Jesus never said that the Holy Spirit would come again unto you; He said I go away, and come again unto you (John 14:28)

But before that Jesus said and the world seeth me no more (John 14:19) which indicates that Jesus would not be returning in the same physical body He had when He walked the earth 2000 years ago. Then Jesus said that the Father would send the Comforter which is the Holy Ghost, in His name.

So the hundred-dollar question is who is the Comforter?

I believe that Jesus was a Comforter as indicated in verses 16 and 18, and I believe Jesus was a Comforter because He brought the Holy Spirit. I know that Christians believe that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit, but that makes no sense because verse 26 says that the Comforter will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever Jesus said unto you. Only a man can do that, not a spirit, and if Jesus was a Comforter it makes sense that "another Comforter" would be another man who brought the Holy Spirit and reminded people of what Jesus had said and taught things just as Jesus had taught things.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

No, that would be three men. I think there are only two men. The man who is ashamed of Jesus, and Jesus who will be ashamed of that man when He comes again.

Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels.

Are you saying that whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words refers to the first man who is ashamed of Jesus and the second man, the Son of man who will come in the glory of his Father with the holy angels, is Jesus? It could also mean that whosoever shall be ashamed of Jesus and of His words refers to the first man, and the Son of man who will come in the glory of his Father with the holy angels was Baha’u’llah.

So, Jesus was the Son of Man when He talked about the Son of Man, but when He talks about the Son of Man returning it isn't Him.

It isn’t Jesus because Jesus said he was not coming back to this world, and His work was finished here (John 14:19, John 17:11, John 17:4, John 19:30)

The return of the Son of Man who came in the glory of his Father was Baha’u’llah.

The Apocalypse of John is directly attributed to Jesus.

I do not believe that because Jesus never promised or planned to return to this world (John 14:19, John 17:11, John 17:4, John 19:30)

Like I said, I hope you understand my confusion.

I do understand it because this can be very confusing.

The Christ Spirit is not the same man Jesus Christ in the same body; it is the return of the Christ Spirit in another man with another body with a new name, as prophesied.

Isaiah 62:2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

But, not the Son of Man who is recognized by all, seen by everyone from east to west, who comes in the clouds with the power and authority of the Father and who makes all of the people of the world weep?

That is a literal interpretation but it is logically impossible because of Jesus came down from the clouds he could not be seen by ALL. Also, elsewhere in many verses it says that Christ will return as a thief in the night, and the thief that comes in the night sneaks in and out as is not seen by anyone.

Baha’u’llah fulfills the prophecy of flashing from east to west but that would be another post because I have a long detailed explanation of how that happened.

Baha’u’llah also came in the clouds (which means when most people were veiled form the truth, as the clouds veil the sun), and He came with the power and authority of the Father and made the people of the world weep.

So, if that Son of Man isn't Jesus (because Jesus isn't coming back) and isn't Baha'u'llah coming back, does Baha'u'llah speak to who that is?

Again, I hope you understand my confusion and thank for any help clearing it up.

Baha’u’llah was the return of the Christ Spirit so He was the return of the Son of Man.

Baha’u’llah was also referred to on the Old Testament as one like the Son of Man.

Daniel 7:13-14 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Jesus ascended into heaven in the clouds. Baha’u’llah, one like the son of man, descended from the clouds of heaven of the Will of God, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. These verses are about an earthly Kingdom, not a heavenly Kingdom. Jesus’ Kingdom is in heaven, Baha’u’llah’s Kingdom will be on earth, after it is built by humans.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

 

[Bree]

Most Christians are waiting for Jesus to return, although they do not all agree on when or how He will return, but if a man came claiming to be Jesus how would you know it was really Jesus? After all, there are no photos of what Jesus looked like when He walked the earth 2000 years ago.

Anyone can claim that he is the return of Jesus and that is no doubt why Jesus gave this warning to His disciples:

Matthew 24

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Jesus was right, because many men have come claiming to be Jesus

List of people claimed to be Jesus - Wikipedia

So how would you know if a man who claimed to be Jesus was really Jesus? What would he have to do to prove to you that He was Jesus?

(This is mostly for Christians, but anyone can answer it. )

Jesus has already returned and most people have not seen it.

They will see it when he goes into action though.

 

[Muffled]

Hmm... Come to think of it. I suppose Christ, 'annointed one', implies power from God. I would guess there are many atheist doctors who heal the sick. Don't think many raise the dead though. I sorta don't believe in the abilities of psychic mediums to contact the dead. Don't know if that would count as 'raising'.

It would not be a big surprise if the antiChristt were the devil incarnate. He tends to be jealous of what God can do. Who knows how he has power. He was able to smite Job with boils.

 

[Muffled]

Jesus has already returned and most people have not seen it.

They will see it when he goes into action though.

I believe that qualifies as a JW fairy tale.

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus has already returned and most people have not seen it.

They will see it when he goes into action though.

That is absolutely true, Christ has returned and most people have not seen it, but he is not going into any action.

 

[Bree]

I believe that qualifies as a JW fairy tale.

note what Jesus said

Matthew 24:36 “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows,+ neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.+ 37 For just as the days of Noah were,+ so the presence of the Son of man will be.+ 38 For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,+ 39 and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away,+ so the presence of the Son of man will be.

Jesus own words say that he will be 'present' and no one will take any notice.

But when did he return and how do we know?

 

[Bree]

That is absolutely true, Christ has returned and most people have not seen it, but he is not going into any action.

What do you think the purpose of him being given rulership in Gods Kingdom is for?

 

[Trailblazer]

What do you think the purpose of him being given rulership in Gods Kingdom is for?

I do not believe the Jesus was given "rulership" in Gods Kingdom.

 

[Trailblazer]

note what Jesus said

Matthew 24:36 “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows,+ neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.+ 37 For just as the days of Noah were,+ so the presence of the Son of man will be.+ 38 For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,+ 39 and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away,+ so the presence of the Son of man will be.

Jesus own words say that he will be 'present' and no one will take any notice.

That is exactly what I believe happened. Most people did not take notice, only a few, in accordance with what Jesus said in these verses:

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

But when did he return and how do we know?

I believe that Christ returned in the mid-19th century and the way you can know that is by looking at all the Bible prophecies that were fulfilled at that time, as delineated in the book entitled Thief in the Night by William Sears.
Some of these prophecies and how they were fulfilled are shown in this video which is only 10 minutes long.

 

[Bree]

I do not believe the Jesus was given "rulership" in Gods Kingdom.

the scritpures certainly indicate that he was given the rulership of Gods kingdom.

Daniel 7:13 “I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man+ was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days,+ and they brought him up close before that One. 14 And to him there were given rulership,+ honor,+ and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him.+ His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed


This prophecy shows that the messiah would be given the position of ruler of Gods heavenly kingdom. You don't believe that Jesus is that person?

 

[Trailblazer]

the scriptures certainly indicate that he was given the rulership of Gods kingdom.

Daniel 7:13 “I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man+ was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days,+ and they brought him up close before that One. 14 And to him there were given rulership,+ honor,+ and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him.+ His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed.

This prophecy shows that the messiah would be given the position of ruler of Gods heavenly kingdom. You don't believe that Jesus is that person?

Why do you think that is about Jesus? It says someone like a son of man+ was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days. Jesus was the Son of Man, not one "like" the son of man. I believe these verses refer to the Messiah of the latter days, which was Baha'u'llah.

These verses are about an earthly Kingdom, not a heavenly Kingdom. Jesus’ Kingdom is in heaven, whereas the kingdom that Baha’u’llah set up will be on earth, after it is built by humans.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

I believe that Jesus was the messiah, but not the only messiah. I believe that Baha'u'llah was the messiah that most of the Old Testament prophecies refer to. They cannot be referring to Jesus since Jesus said He would be no more in this world and that His work was finished here and that His kingdom is not of this world:

(John 14:19, John 17:11, John 17:4, John 19:30, John 18:36, John 18:37)

Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

The following passage refers to Jesus.

“The Throne upon which He sat is the Eternal Throne from which Christ reigns for ever, a heavenly throne, not an earthly one, for the things of earth pass away but heavenly things pass not away. He re-interpreted and completed the Law of Moses and fulfilled the Law of the Prophets. His word conquered the East and the West. His Kingdom is everlasting.” Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks

The following passage refers to Baha'u'llah who brought the Most Great Law by which the Kingdom of God on earth will be established by humans who follow that Law.

“THE Most Great Law is come, and the Ancient Beauty ruleth upon the throne of David. Thus hath My Pen spoken that which the histories of bygone ages have related. At this time, however, David crieth aloud and saith: ‘O my loving Lord! Do Thou number me with such as have stood steadfast in Thy Cause, O Thou through Whom the faces have been illumined, and the footsteps have slipped!’” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 89-90

 

[Bree]

Why do you think that is about Jesus? It says someone like a son of man+ was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days. Jesus was the Son of Man, not one "like" the son of man. I believe these verses refer to the Messiah of the latter days, which was Baha'u'llah.

These verses are about an earthly Kingdom, not a heavenly Kingdom. Jesus’ Kingdom is in heaven, whereas the kingdom that Baha’u’llah set up will be on earth, after it is built by humans.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

I believe that Jesus was the messiah, but not the only messiah. I believe that Baha'u'llah was the messiah that most of the Old Testament prophecies refer to. They cannot be referring to Jesus since Jesus said He would be no more in this world and that His work was finished here and that His kingdom is not of this world:

(John 14:19, John 17:11, John 17:4, John 19:30, John 18:36, John 18:37)

Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

The following passage refers to Jesus.

“The Throne upon which He sat is the Eternal Throne from which Christ reigns for ever, a heavenly throne, not an earthly one, for the things of earth pass away but heavenly things pass not away. He re-interpreted and completed the Law of Moses and fulfilled the Law of the Prophets. His word conquered the East and the West. His Kingdom is everlasting.” Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks

The following passage refers to Baha'u'llah who brought the Most Great Law by which the Kingdom of God on earth will be established by humans who follow that Law.

“THE Most Great Law is come, and the Ancient Beauty ruleth upon the throne of David. Thus hath My Pen spoken that which the histories of bygone ages have related. At this time, however, David crieth aloud and saith: ‘O my loving Lord! Do Thou number me with such as have stood steadfast in Thy Cause, O Thou through Whom the faces have been illumined, and the footsteps have slipped!’” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 89-90

yes there are lots of people who claim to be the messiah. I guess the choice we make is the one we will have to live with.

 

[Trailblazer]

yes there are lots of people who claim to be the messiah. I guess the choice we make is the one we will have to live with.

I agree.

 

[Trailblazer]

Long flowing hair, and a few scars. Talks in parables. Comes out of the sky with eyes of fire with a burning vengeance against non believers.

Lots of people could fit that description and many probably do.

If a man came claiming to be the return of Christ how would anyone know he was really the return of Christ?
Some people claim that everyone would know but how would they know? Nobody can answer that question.

When the real Mahdi/Christ Returns, he will be well-known around the world in less than a year if not a month.
#109 soulsurvivor, Today at 9:13 AM

How would he get to be well-known as the real Mahdi/Christ around the world in less than a year if not a month?
I am not directing this only at you. Anyone can answer this but I want a logical answer

 

[Colt]

Lots of people could fit that description and many probably do.

If a man came claiming to be the return of Christ how would anyone know he was really the return of Christ?
Some people claim that everyone would know but how would they know? Nobody can answer that question.

When the real Mahdi/Christ Returns, he will be well-known around the world in less than a year if not a month.
#109 soulsurvivor, Today at 9:13 AM

How would he get to be well-known as the real Mahdi/Christ around the world in less than a year if not a month?
I am not directing this only at you. Anyone can answer this but I want a logical answer

When the Son of God returns for a visit it will likely be after the original Gospel of the kingdom of heaven subdues the world.

 

[rational experiences]

As human men have to be now present as human bio men... now as present ...now we said... now as dominion... now.

Right now our end is the human.

So to be a lying human you have to be a theist and a man then give yourself all Fake titles as the scientist. Once in fear you used tactics you were quite happy to say I'm the satanist.

As we are all meant to be afraid of you.

Father man human procreator creator is your real title. You ignore the laws. Natural.

So now present as your end the human or a human. The human.looks at all other ends. Each it's owned self.

But you don't claim each end is itself oened. You claim we own a future. Yet we don't. We live now. All the same types of masses are now a heavens. So bio life should remain the same constantly.

So after all your false preaching as just the man a liar I've seen you.

Brothers. You know the bio life lives survived yet dies within the same heavens. That end death is not in legal science humans end. A humans end in thesis is the human.

Con artists is the invented word use for their review in legal.

At your end a human man the adult you can die sacrificed now at any age.

Once you chose the age of 33.

So I've seen pictures of what humans claim Jesus the man image is. Seen plenty of men humans all bio sacrificed who looked as Jesus is depicted as he's still here...men.

Once we were perfect by our teaching.

No defects. We wouldn't even know who we'd be. Although I saw mother and she surely was the most beautiful woman's image I've ever seen.

I can say my sister is beautiful without getting upset that I'm not in a beautiful image.

So what would he look like? To be known here with us. He's already with us within our body. Man adult an image inside his body DNA...his bio image and his heavenly recorded imaged man. Was sacrificed in every nation.

Same story as before.

Is what he'd look like.

As only humans had to claim my god within my body is human. For legal human reasons. Which most of you ignore the bible argument is natural human legal versus the satanic theists.

Who study non humans presence as theories.

Versus Satanists who said once a human was a beast or an alien. Same theist which you all ignore.

Oh no he says if you were an alien who stepped out of your machine you controlled you wouldn't evolve would you into a human?

No men of science said a machine by alien causes created the human life across dimensions. It manifested by images he says.

Metals converted into biology.

Oh?

Your machine metal stays the body type you built to take our place. Your human only confession you believe you want and you're trying to cause now. A machine to be given life. As machines total design one body isn't alive.

You want our end the human to be ended to make the alien the machines beginning. Life for machines direct from earths heavens. As if God built a machine above to be a human.

So everyday you keep transmitting attacking experimenting on biology. Claiming you'll invent our end of life as human into the alien. Images only what theists claim Jesus is ended as images in clouds. Not a human.

Exact science is exact you know.

That's quantified the destroyer human.

Have to be a human living to be the destroyer.

As if metals invented humans it would never be enabled to change us. As its highest greatest your God you idolise in science is the machine. Cold metal.

You can't see it unless it's greatest highest body manifests.

All theists today are assisting the destroyer even in bio medical terms...just human only owned. He's data basing us to try to anti biology out of heavens. As he theories I'll channel electricity out of clouds.

No he says I won't.

I want a machine only reaction. Well the machine even electric powered is still dead. It doesn't come alive until you press the button.

So where isn't electricity invented brother human? Is what you are trying to claim.

Science said the amount of new cloud mass above added onto old cloud mass would be about electrical power.

As electricity its end is exact from alchemical conversions to where electricity ends.

No it doesn't he says I want a non stop electrical supply for eternity.

So how does eternity end to just be electricity I want Jesus for myself man answer?