If man is born with a sin nature ....

[URAVIP2ME]

If man is born with a sin nature, then why do we need the devil? If we are born with a sin nature, that is saying that it is in our nature to lie, cheat, steal, kill, rape, etc. So, if it is on our nature to commit sins; why do you blame the devil for temptatation? Why is the devil even needed in this mythology? To say that we have a sin nature and yet we are tempted of the devil, makes me think that those who believe don't really know who or what to blame for sin; and if that's the plan of the omnipotent father, it seems like a double negative to me.

Please remember God is ALL mighty and He uses his almightyness within limits.
Such as: God can Not lie - Titus 1:2
Adam was created upright. Meaning Adam's leanings were only toward righteousness.
Once Adam chose to break God's No Trespassing Law, from then on Adam's leanings were toward unrighteousness. Try as Adam might he never again could lean toward being upright.

Since we are all born ' after ' father Adam's downfall then we inherited his tendency toward wrongdoing or leaning/ toward unrighteousness. That is why every parent knows at the birth of a child that its leanings/ will be toward wrongdoing and needs its parents to guide and direct the child.

Satan puts temptations in front of us as he did with Eve, and with Jesus in Luke chapter 4.
However, we are responsible for our own actions. Satan can Not make us do anything against our will. God tempts No one.- James 1:13

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

I don't perceive a child as having leanings towards wrongdoing. I perceive children as having the leanings to do what is pleasing in the eyes of those around them. I see children as human beings with a lot more to learn than their elders, thus more prone to make mistakes. I do not see children as sinful. Being less developed than their elders, their emotions and impulses are much more overwhelming; that is the core of their disobedience, imho.

 

[roger1440]

I do not see children as sinful

At what age would people become sinful?

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

This is a difficult question to answer; for the first reason it's difficult to me is that I do not subscribe to "sinful" as that word is interpreted according to the "morality" taught in the Bible and the biblical commandments. It denotes an absolutism that is too black and white.

I m not avoiding discussion. It is simply a question that I can not give an answer as asked.

 

[feneluscliff]

Read genesis chapter 1-3 made was made in God's image. Everything God made was good! Including man! When you read genesis chapter three you see Satan as the instigator of sin! That is what he does! We have our own sinful nature and something consent to his temptation, he cannot force us to sin, he suggests and we have a choice to make ti sin or not to sin.

 

[DawudTalut]

Read genesis chapter 1-3 made was made in God's image. Everything God made was good! Including man! When you read genesis chapter three you see Satan as the instigator of sin! That is what he does! We have our own sinful nature and something consent to his temptation, he cannot force us to sin, he suggests and we have a choice to make ti sin or not to sin.

Peace be on you. If we are at image of God how can we have sinful nature.
I believe, we are born pure. We are granted raw faculties, we have to work them all the way up with the divine teaching..

 

[feneluscliff]

Peace be on you. If we are at image of God how can we have sinful nature.
I believe, we are born pure. We are granted raw faculties, we have to work them all the way up with the divine teaching..

By one man's sin; sin enter the world Roman 5;12. If that is what you believe where is it in the bible? How did you come to that?

 

[DawudTalut]

By one man's sin; sin enter the world Roman 5;12. If that is what you believe where is it in the bible? How did you come to that?

Peace be on you.
Holy Quran
[91:8] And by the soul and its perfection —
[91:9] And He revealed to it what is wrong for it and what is right for it —
[91:10] He indeed truly prospers who purifies it,
[91:11] And he who corrupts it is ruined.

AND

[17:65] ‘And entice whomsoever of them thou canst, with thy voice, and urge against them thy horsemen and thy footmen and be their partner in wealth, and children, and make promises to them.’ And Satan promises them naught but deceit.

[17:66] As to My servants, thou shalt certainly have no power over them, and sufficient is thy Lord as a Guardian.

AND

[30:31]So set thy face to the service of religion as one devoted to God. And follow the nature made by Allah — the nature in which He has created mankind. There is no altering the creation of Allah. That is the right religion. But most men know not.


[alislam.org/quran]


AND

After getting lift from raw stages human reaches at his full purity and

" The Third source; The Soul at Rest The third source which should be described as the beginning of the spiritual state of man is called by the Holy Quran Nafsi Mutma’innah, that is to say, the soul at rest, as is said:

13 That is, O soul at rest that has found comfort in God return to thy Lord, thou well pleased with Him and He well pleased with thee. Now join My chosen servants and enter into My garden.


This is the stage when the soul of a person being delivered from all weaknesses is filled with spiritual powers and establishes a relationship with God Almighty without Whose support it cannot exist. As water flowing down from a height, on account of its volume and the absence of any obstruction, rushes with great force, in the same way the soul at rest flows towards God. That is indicated by the divine direction to the soul that has found comfort in God to return to its Lord. It undergoes a great transformation in this very life and is bestowed a paradise while still in this world. As this verse indicates in its direction to such a soul to return to its Lord, it is nourished by its Lord and its love of God becomes its nurture, and it drinks at this fountain of life and is thus delivered from death. This is indicated at another place in the Holy Quran where it is said:

14 That is, he who purifies his soul of earthly passions shall be saved and shall not suffer ruin, but he who is overcome by his earthly passions should despair of life."

[note: For 13 and 14 the exact verses and exact meanings are given in actual link.]
https://www.alislam.org/library/books/Philosophy-of-Teachings-of-Islam.pdf

 

[feneluscliff]

Peace be on you.
Holy Quran
[91:8] And by the soul and its perfection —
[91:9] And He revealed to it what is wrong for it and what is right for it —
[91:10] He indeed truly prospers who purifies it,
[91:11] And he who corrupts it is ruined.

AND

[17:65] ‘And entice whomsoever of them thou canst, with thy voice, and urge against them thy horsemen and thy footmen and be their partner in wealth, and children, and make promises to them.’ And Satan promises them naught but deceit.

[17:66] As to My servants, thou shalt certainly have no power over them, and sufficient is thy Lord as a Guardian.

AND

[30:31]So set thy face to the service of religion as one devoted to God. And follow the nature made by Allah — the nature in which He has created mankind. There is no altering the creation of Allah. That is the right religion. But most men know not.


[alislam.org/quran]


AND

After getting lift from raw stages human reaches at his full purity and

" The Third source; The Soul at Rest The third source which should be described as the beginning of the spiritual state of man is called by the Holy Quran Nafsi Mutma’innah, that is to say, the soul at rest, as is said:

13 That is, O soul at rest that has found comfort in God return to thy Lord, thou well pleased with Him and He well pleased with thee. Now join My chosen servants and enter into My garden.


This is the stage when the soul of a person being delivered from all weaknesses is filled with spiritual powers and establishes a relationship with God Almighty without Whose support it cannot exist. As water flowing down from a height, on account of its volume and the absence of any obstruction, rushes with great force, in the same way the soul at rest flows towards God. That is indicated by the divine direction to the soul that has found comfort in God to return to its Lord. It undergoes a great transformation in this very life and is bestowed a paradise while still in this world. As this verse indicates in its direction to such a soul to return to its Lord, it is nourished by its Lord and its love of God becomes its nurture, and it drinks at this fountain of life and is thus delivered from death. This is indicated at another place in the Holy Quran where it is said:

14 That is, he who purifies his soul of earthly passions shall be saved and shall not suffer ruin, but he who is overcome by his earthly passions should despair of life."

[note: For 13 and 14 the exact verses and exact meanings are given in actual link.]
https://www.alislam.org/library/books/Philosophy-of-Teachings-of-Islam.pdf

I'm sorry I don't go by the Qur'an. Only the word of God, The bible. So I can't discuss anything with you unless you want to talk about the bible.

 

[sojourner]

It's all in the head. The devil is the reptilian brain in all humans that needs defeated. The animal mind.

We don't need to "defeat" our base instincts -- they're necessary in order for us to be whole human beings.

 

[roger1440]

Isn't "the devil" intended to be a personification of sin and evil?

Yeah, there is evil out there alright.

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