If Religion is About Belief...

[firedragon]

To be honest, one was, I believe, created by my subconscious mind. I don't share it because I don't feel anyone would consider I have any authority when it comes to God.

I did. However I suspect this adds fuel to my subconscious to aid in the creation of a God I would find acceptable based on what I think I know.

I see an conscious and an unconscious element to God. This unconscious element I don't think we have a lot of control over. I don't like giving my unconscious mind that much control over God, therefore I harbor no beliefs about God in order to take away its influence.

Let me understand this. Your assertion of God is based on your your mind and you have a methodological unbelief in God for a purpose.

 

[Ponder This]

Or faith, then what is there to debate about?

It's all based on opinion isn't it?
Nothing can be proven or dismissed.

One might be persuaded by someone's else's opinion but based on what? Since I can say whatever I want and not worry about supporting it because it's a belief, not a fact.

Not that I'm judging as I do it too but I realize I can say pretty much whatever I want with almost no concern about proving it. Certainly a materialist like myself has a more difficult job needing to support some statement they made.

A religious debate, isn't it all just sophistry?

In debates about any topic, those people actively involved in the debate rarely change their minds during debate.
If people easily changed their minds, then there wouldn't be all that much debate. Someone would offer an argument, the other person would simply agree, and the debate would be over.

While a consequence of debate is that people think more deeply about topics...
Yes, religious debate can be sophistry and useless distraction.

 

[DNB]

For the individual right?
Your process can certainly be different than mine. At which point who is to say which POV is correct.
You make one claim about God, I make another claim. Both of us sincerely believe what we claim based on our experience of the universe. What is there to debate really?

The process, that is what is left to debate. That is, that grounds on which you made your determination, and those that I based my convictions on.
If I, for example, believe something to be true simply based solely on circumstantial evidence, that would undermine the veracity of my claim. But, if i gave more fundamental reasons for the belief, supplemented with empirical evidence, that would increase the probability, to a high degree, of my assertion to be correct.

 

[Connect Muslims]

Religions are belief systems that relate humanity to spirituality. If you want to more about the Islamic lifestyle and prayer time, download Muslim Pro mobile app.

 

[Nakosis]

The process, that is what is left to debate. That is, that grounds on which you made your determination, and those that I based my convictions on.
If I, for example, believe something to be true simply based solely on circumstantial evidence, that would undermine the veracity of my claim. But, if i gave more fundamental reasons for the belief, supplemented with empirical evidence, that would increase the probability, to a high degree, of my assertion to be correct.

When it comes to spiritual things, the place I start is questioning my own assertations. Maybe you've have better luck in finding certainty than I did.

 

[halbhh]

Sorry, I was referring to your religious belief being more than opinion. Often people present these as fact.

Well, for me, the reason to believe after an initial leap of faith (momentary provisional faith) is because of some kind of confirmation, which I have a lot of, and much of it is observational fact, like when I factually fell off a 2nd story roof about 20 feet above large rocks, and factually I prayed about 1/2 of a second, and then factually woke up without even a bruise. So, by itself, that's only interesting. But in combination with many other instances together, where the rate is 100% (that on those relatively rare occasions I prayed, each time something unusual happened), then together, over time, these observations suggest to me something more than only 'just a belief' (once there are enough such events). So, see, that's more, to me, than 'just a belief' in a way, in that it has objective facts underlying it.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Or faith, then what is there to debate about?

It's all based on opinion isn't it?
Nothing can be proven or dismissed.

Ow, I don't know.

I think all things that are asserted without evidence / proof, can be dismissed at face value.

A religious debate, isn't it all just sophistry?

Yes.

Not sure anymore where I heard this, but some guy on youtube once described a religious debate between a muslim and a christian as "trying to fight out a war using action figures".

I thought that was pretty funny. And spot on.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No you are absolutely wrong. Religion has predominantly been about Philosophical and logical rationalisation. Not just blind faith or someones opinion and others worship the opinion and the opinionated.

The effort to rationalize blind faith is called apologetics and it doesn't make the blind faith any less blind.

People do have blind faith. Some always do. For example, some atheists believe that science will answer everything and every question.

Who specifically are you talking about?
I know a lot of atheists, but none who would say such a thing.

But that's not what atheism as a whole is about or anything else as a whole is about.

True.

But I have yet to meet a theist who doesn't engage in blind faith concerning core theistic claims / beliefs..

 

[DNB]

When it comes to spiritual things, the place I start is questioning my own assertations. Maybe you've have better luck in finding certainty than I did.

Possibly, for I do believe that the existence of man's spirit is demonstrable, and thus, one can induce that there must be a greater entity that is the source of that spirit within man.

 

[PureX]

Or faith, then what is there to debate about?

It's all based on opinion isn't it?
Nothing can be proven or dismissed.

One might be persuaded by someone's else's opinion but based on what? Since I can say whatever I want and not worry about supporting it because it's a belief, not a fact.

Not that I'm judging as I do it too but I realize I can say pretty much whatever I want with almost no concern about proving it. Certainly a materialist like myself has a more difficult job needing to support some statement they made.

A religious debate, isn't it all just sophistry?

We can debate our beliefs because we believe they are true to reality, and so should be able to present our justification for that belief. But faith is not based on the presumption of belief. It is based on hope rather than presumption. So with faith, there is really little for us to debate about. As no assertions about the truth of reality are being posed. Only the hope of such.

 

[Nakosis]

We can debate our beliefs because we believe they are true to reality, and so should be able to present our justification for that belief. But faith is not based on the presumption of belief. It is based on hope rather than presumption. So with faith, there is really little for us to debate about. As no assertions about the truth of reality are being posed. Only the hope of such.

I suppose I don't even hope. I have ideas, how I thinks things might work. I just take the position that I'm probably wrong.

 

[PureX]

I suppose I don't even hope. I have ideas, how I thinks things might work. I just take the position that I'm probably wrong.

Yes, faith includes doubt. In fact it's born in doubt and skepticism. That's why I consider faith to be honest, whereas the pretense of belief to be somewhat dishonest.

 

[lukethethird]

Yes, faith includes doubt. In fact it's born in doubt and skepticism. That's why I consider faith to be honest, whereas the pretense of belief to be somewhat dishonest.

Faith includes doubt just like up is down.

 

[PureX]

Faith includes doubt just like up is down.

Faith is choosing to trust an ideal even though we have doubts. So yes, there is no 'up' without 'down', and no faith without doubt.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

How do you win the debate if I can say whatever I want about God knowing it is undisprovable?

God gives us the ability to know and Love God, in logic and reason of spiritual proofs.

So it is provable, just not by the 5 material senses.

Regards