If Religion is "natural" why do we need "preachers" to be preaching all the time?

[ShivaFan]

It is not that I think preachers should be outlawed or anything like that, and most religions have their preachers or teachers or gurus or whatever you call them who can range from welcoming to fun to constant preaching, preaching (!) ...

... well let's just say the preaching, preaching, preaching types seem to me to make their religion seem fake, not spiritual, not even natural to my existence. It is sort of hard to explain, but let me put it in terms of my Hindu experience.

The Hindu "realms" and worlds and adventures and experiences that seem real to me really do not involve much preaching, preaching, preaching.

For example, I am truly alive in a temple or Hindu gathering where their is a lot of bhakta, worship, singing (bhajans), food, sounds and lights, devotees, smells (incense), music, mantras, sacred fires, art and so on, but then ...

... well, the examples I just gave that LIVE WITH ME rather than PREACH AT ME just seem to be alive, full, and ... natural ...

... but then ... but then ... sometimes, well, how to say it? Some Gurumonstrosity get before the flock and ruins the entire party, spoils the love, turns devotion and spirit into a very long math class.

The Gurumonstrosity starts preaching, preaching, preaching, ugg, preaching... now I am not talking about those nice Gurus who tell the "children" the stories. You know, the one's that start off like "in the village of xyz in old India, there was an old man who loved Devi. He had a grand daughter named Sweetpea who was poor. One day the old man brought Sweetpea to the temple of Devi near the river and ...." ...

Now THAT I like! Or, "Lakshmi, bring me a cup of water. Thank you! Well, what a wonderful Bhajan that was! But now let me tell you what the song was about. Do you know who Hanuman is? (crowd cheers Jai Hanuman!)... Ah, Yes! You DO! Now, let me tell you about when Hanuman approached Sita Devi held captive by Ravan, when Lord Hanuman brought Sita a ring... not just any ring... no. Let me tell you..."

Now THAT I like. I am Happy! Everyone there is. Yes. This is going to be sweet! Nectar! And it is full of life, and ... feels NATURAL.

Then comes Boarananda. Also known as "the Rack". He starts preaching. Verse 12, Canto 64:

"... the sound of A must follow when you reach Z. There is no substitute. For the next two hours, we will not sing. We will not have any adventures. Nevermind what happened in the village. Do not talk. We left off last night on page 952. One bowl of rice must be offered. But not in a bowl. Banana leaf. The world that continues is like a bowl. But that which is eaten in the bowl is digested by the world. But if what is to be eaten is laid flat, like rice on a banana leaf, then you can clearly see - are there bugs in the rice? You are rice. But you must be checked first. To SEEEEEE if you have bugs. Page 952. It is a page that has 161 letters. 161. I can count the letters. But if the rice is in a bowl, can you count the number of rice grains there are in the bowl? You cannot! But if we put the big spoon of rice on a banana leaf, THEN can you count the number of grains of rice? Maybe."

Preaching, preaching, preaching - I want to commit suicide. Get me out. Get me out of here right now!

"And the son of Ishmel had two children. One went East. Another went west. One to bring oxen to the wooden palace. The other to bring three coins and a chicken to the wife of the tax collector. In the year of King Lotsabucks. On the way the second stopped to rest in the town of Badwater. There he sleep with Josaphine and they begot a child with knotted hair. This was before the first lost one of the oxen which fell off the side of a mountain... "

I want to die. Please stop. No. No more. I got to get out of this place. Otherwise I might choke that nice old lady next to me who died at some point during the preaching, preaching, preaching. Now why would I choke an old lady who is already dead? I don't know. Other than another 30 minutes of this preaching, I'm going to DO IT!

Does anybody understand what I am trying to say?

If Religion is "natural" why do we need "preachers" to be preaching all the time? It doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel like religion. It feels like you are being put in a sarcophagus. Or am I being too judgemental?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Does anybody understand what I am trying to say?

If Religion is "natural" why do we need "preachers" to be preaching all the time? It doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel like religion. It feels like you are being put in a sarcophagus. Or am I being too judgemental?

It is rather confusing, isn't it? Some faiths teach that it is natural to know God, but also that we are naturally sinful. So at once, preaching is both necessary and unnecessary because religion (assuming theism) is at once natural & unnatural.

 

[Stevicus]

Preaching, preaching, preaching - I want to commit suicide. Get me out. Get me out of here right now!

...

I want to die. Please stop. No. No more. I got to get out of this place. Otherwise I might choke that nice old lady next to me who died at some point during the preaching, preaching, preaching. Now why would I choke an old lady who is already dead? I don't know. Other than another 30 minutes of this preaching, I'm going to DO IT!

Does anybody understand what I am trying to say?

Kind of. This part reminded me of some scenes in the movie Airplane, where Ted Striker is telling his seatmates the story of his life in long, intricate detail which bores everyone he talks to so much that they're driven to suicide.

 

[pearl]

Its always the 'story' that hands on ones tradition. The 'story' is where we live and experience life, 'taste and see the goodness of the Lord' etc. The story lends itself to memory, as the preaching is soon forgotten. One can place oneself in the story.
Probably why Jesus taught through parables. The preacher takes away your personal experience of the story by explaining what it means to the preacher. And it gets worse when preachers offer differing explanations to the same story.

 

[Lorgar-Aurelian]

It is not that I think preachers should be outlawed or anything like that, and most religions have their preachers or teachers or gurus or whatever you call them who can range from welcoming to fun to constant preaching, preaching (!) ...

... well let's just say the preaching, preaching, preaching types seem to me to make their religion seem fake, not spiritual, not even natural to my existence. It is sort of hard to explain, but let me put it in terms of my Hindu experience.

The Hindu "realms" and worlds and adventures and experiences that seem real to me really do not involve much preaching, preaching, preaching.

For example, I am truly alive in a temple or Hindu gathering where their is a lot of bhakta, worship, singing (bhajans), food, sounds and lights, devotees, smells (incense), music, mantras, sacred fires, art and so on, but then ...

... well, the examples I just gave that LIVE WITH ME rather than PREACH AT ME just seem to be alive, full, and ... natural ...

... but then ... but then ... sometimes, well, how to say it? Some Gurumonstrosity get before the flock and ruins the entire party, spoils the love, turns devotion and spirit into a very long math class.

The Gurumonstrosity starts preaching, preaching, preaching, ugg, preaching... now I am not talking about those nice Gurus who tell the "children" the stories. You know, the one's that start off like "in the village of xyz in old India, there was an old man who loved Devi. He had a grand daughter named Sweetpea who was poor. One day the old man brought Sweetpea to the temple of Devi near the river and ...." ...

Now THAT I like! Or, "Lakshmi, bring me a cup of water. Thank you! Well, what a wonderful Bhajan that was! But now let me tell you what the song was about. Do you know who Hanuman is? (crowd cheers Jai Hanuman!)... Ah, Yes! You DO! Now, let me tell you about when Hanuman approached Sita Devi held captive by Ravan, when Lord Hanuman brought Sita a ring... not just any ring... no. Let me tell you..."

Now THAT I like. I am Happy! Everyone there is. Yes. This is going to be sweet! Nectar! And it is full of life, and ... feels NATURAL.

Then comes Boarananda. Also known as "the Rack". He starts preaching. Verse 12, Canto 64:

"... the sound of A must follow when you reach Z. There is no substitute. For the next two hours, we will not sing. We will not have any adventures. Nevermind what happened in the village. Do not talk. We left off last night on page 952. One bowl of rice must be offered. But not in a bowl. Banana leaf. The world that continues is like a bowl. But that which is eaten in the bowl is digested by the world. But if what is to be eaten is laid flat, like rice on a banana leaf, then you can clearly see - are there bugs in the rice? You are rice. But you must be checked first. To SEEEEEE if you have bugs. Page 952. It is a page that has 161 letters. 161. I can count the letters. But if the rice is in a bowl, can you count the number of rice grains there are in the bowl? You cannot! But if we put the big spoon of rice on a banana leaf, THEN can you count the number of grains of rice? Maybe."

Preaching, preaching, preaching - I want to commit suicide. Get me out. Get me out of here right now!

"And the son of Ishmel had two children. One went East. Another went west. One to bring oxen to the wooden palace. The other to bring three coins and a chicken to the wife of the tax collector. In the year of King Lotsabucks. On the way the second stopped to rest in the town of Badwater. There he sleep with Josaphine and they begot a child with knotted hair. This was before the first lost one of the oxen which fell off the side of a mountain... "

I want to die. Please stop. No. No more. I got to get out of this place. Otherwise I might choke that nice old lady next to me who died at some point during the preaching, preaching, preaching. Now why would I choke an old lady who is already dead? I don't know. Other than another 30 minutes of this preaching, I'm going to DO IT!

Does anybody understand what I am trying to say?

If Religion is "natural" why do we need "preachers" to be preaching all the time? It doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel like religion. It feels like you are being put in a sarcophagus. Or am I being too judgemental?

Because spiritual inclination is natural but the way the vast majority of religions operate today they are infact barely spiritual. Modern Christianity often reminds me of people having faith in a church rather than faith in Christ. They are more worried about supporting their church than they are worried about following christs teachings.

Religion as we often encounter it in the west is very "unnatural" if you want to put it that way. I remember a rabbi saying "If you were introduced to Christianity later in life in any educated country you would never accept it." I think what a lot of churches and all that are hoping is that if they keep screaming at you about how awesome their religion is you can ignore any doubts you have.

Look at something like Matthew 21:21 Jesus replied, "Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done."
Does prayer work like that in the real world? No.

You have to preach because otherwise most of these religions like Islam, Christianity, Baha'i ect would never last. You have to preach about hellfire and all this other nonsense because otherwise everyone would realize what these religions really are. A waste of time.

 

[crowfeather]

Religion is natural. Every child is born with a sense of wonder.
Humans are unnatural. They take a natural thing, turn it into an ideology, and charge admission to it.

 

[ronandcarol]

If Religion is "natural" why do we need "preachers" to be preaching all the time?
Religion is not "natural", all humans are born with sin and have sinful, rebellious hearts. We have to be awakened buy the Spirit of God to come to the knowledge of the Truth. Jesus is Truth. When we ask Jesus to be the Lord and Savior of our life, than we are finally ready to accept "religion" into our hearts with understanding. Preachers are our Sheppards to feed us and nourish us along the way. We cannot successfully maneuver this life without someone to help keep us on track. A weekly injection helps quite a bit.
ronandcarol

 

[CogentPhilosopher]

Religion is not "natural", all humans are born with sin and have sinful, rebellious hearts

And whose fault is that?

 

[Pudding]

Preaching, preaching, preaching - I want to commit suicide. Get me out. Get me out of here right now!

(snip)

I want to die. Please stop. No. No more. I got to get out of this place. Otherwise I might choke that nice old lady next to me who died at some point during the preaching, preaching, preaching. Now why would I choke an old lady who is already dead? I don't know. Other than another 30 minutes of this preaching, I'm going to DO IT!

Does anybody understand what I am trying to say?

Maybe you can politely ask them to stop preaching at you or try to politely ignore them or don't go to the place where they'll preaching at you?

If Religion is "natural" why do we need "preachers" to be preaching all the time? It doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel like religion. It feels like you are being put in a sarcophagus. Or am I being too judgemental?

What do you mean by religion is "natural"?

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

Religion is natural. Every child is born with a sense of wonder.
Humans are unnatural. They take a natural thing, turn it into an ideology, and charge admission to it.

LMAO!

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

It is not that I think preachers should be outlawed or anything like that, and most religions have their preachers or teachers or gurus or whatever you call them who can range from welcoming to fun to constant preaching, preaching (!) ...

... well let's just say the preaching, preaching, preaching types seem to me to make their religion seem fake, not spiritual, not even natural to my existence. It is sort of hard to explain, but let me put it in terms of my Hindu experience.

The Hindu "realms" and worlds and adventures and experiences that seem real to me really do not involve much preaching, preaching, preaching.

For example, I am truly alive in a temple or Hindu gathering where their is a lot of bhakta, worship, singing (bhajans), food, sounds and lights, devotees, smells (incense), music, mantras, sacred fires, art and so on, but then ...

... well, the examples I just gave that LIVE WITH ME rather than PREACH AT ME just seem to be alive, full, and ... natural ...

... but then ... but then ... sometimes, well, how to say it? Some Gurumonstrosity get before the flock and ruins the entire party, spoils the love, turns devotion and spirit into a very long math class.

The Gurumonstrosity starts preaching, preaching, preaching, ugg, preaching... now I am not talking about those nice Gurus who tell the "children" the stories. You know, the one's that start off like "in the village of xyz in old India, there was an old man who loved Devi. He had a grand daughter named Sweetpea who was poor. One day the old man brought Sweetpea to the temple of Devi near the river and ...." ...

Now THAT I like! Or, "Lakshmi, bring me a cup of water. Thank you! Well, what a wonderful Bhajan that was! But now let me tell you what the song was about. Do you know who Hanuman is? (crowd cheers Jai Hanuman!)... Ah, Yes! You DO! Now, let me tell you about when Hanuman approached Sita Devi held captive by Ravan, when Lord Hanuman brought Sita a ring... not just any ring... no. Let me tell you..."

Now THAT I like. I am Happy! Everyone there is. Yes. This is going to be sweet! Nectar! And it is full of life, and ... feels NATURAL.

Then comes Boarananda. Also known as "the Rack". He starts preaching. Verse 12, Canto 64:

"... the sound of A must follow when you reach Z. There is no substitute. For the next two hours, we will not sing. We will not have any adventures. Nevermind what happened in the village. Do not talk. We left off last night on page 952. One bowl of rice must be offered. But not in a bowl. Banana leaf. The world that continues is like a bowl. But that which is eaten in the bowl is digested by the world. But if what is to be eaten is laid flat, like rice on a banana leaf, then you can clearly see - are there bugs in the rice? You are rice. But you must be checked first. To SEEEEEE if you have bugs. Page 952. It is a page that has 161 letters. 161. I can count the letters. But if the rice is in a bowl, can you count the number of rice grains there are in the bowl? You cannot! But if we put the big spoon of rice on a banana leaf, THEN can you count the number of grains of rice? Maybe."

Preaching, preaching, preaching - I want to commit suicide. Get me out. Get me out of here right now!

"And the son of Ishmel had two children. One went East. Another went west. One to bring oxen to the wooden palace. The other to bring three coins and a chicken to the wife of the tax collector. In the year of King Lotsabucks. On the way the second stopped to rest in the town of Badwater. There he sleep with Josaphine and they begot a child with knotted hair. This was before the first lost one of the oxen which fell off the side of a mountain... "

I want to die. Please stop. No. No more. I got to get out of this place. Otherwise I might choke that nice old lady next to me who died at some point during the preaching, preaching, preaching. Now why would I choke an old lady who is already dead? I don't know. Other than another 30 minutes of this preaching, I'm going to DO IT!

Does anybody understand what I am trying to say?

If Religion is "natural" why do we need "preachers" to be preaching all the time? It doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel like religion. It feels like you are being put in a sarcophagus. Or am I being too judgemental?

I think what is missing is...what do you mean by the term 'natural?' I have a rather objective opinion as to the meaning of this word. But you use it, it seems, in a broad, general, sense as....'something that makes sense?'

I believe you are at a turning point. A turn that took me a few years to make!

 

[osgart]

there's never been a good religion as of yet. can anyone agree on the definition of what religion is?

religion to me is holding beliefs and convictions about what is true and yet beyond evidential reasoning or scope. but that is not the definition of religion today. in religion often a higher power is invoked and that's where it gets ugly because then the religion demands authority over you and complete submission conformity.

a true religion to me is more agnostic. a higher power you would seek after and not delude about.

a preacher with an honest message and a good message is rare.

ultimately you would want something that liberates you and doesn't demand complete conformity.

ultimately religion is human and history knows the evil of humans.

truth, justice, virtue, compassion, mercy, repentance, deserve, can anyone agree on what the truth of these words are.

religion needs an overhaul and a more liberating definition of what it means to be religious.

I do believe religion is a right so long as it is not a cult. Christianity, Islam, judaism these are cults. oldest ones in the book.

anything that demands submission is a cult.