If scientists manage to create life then what?

[Anastasios]

Even if they can create "the" life from raw materials, they would still need a creator who created the materials which would be used by scientist to construct that new "life". I think the most difficult for them is to create from none

where did those raw materials come from?
still the manipulator, not the creator.

Good point FRUBALS!

:sarcastic

 

[spookboy0]

A question for those here who believe in a creator.

If scientists manage to create 'life' from raw materials, would your faith be altered in any way?

A little. Not dramatically, but a definite "stumbling block."

Then again, the scientists would also have to calculate the chance of this occurance in nature, without the aid of a laboratory.

And remember, it can't exceed 10 x 10^50, because anything past that is considered, by scientists, to be "impossible."

​

 

[Ody]

:sarcastic

Didn't see your post FRUBALS FOR YOU TO!

 

[ashai]

Gee Whiz ! You guys answered so well, that i am left with nothing to add

Ushta to you all
Ashai

 

[Mr Spinkles]

So you can put your solution forward, if you assume that you have any other rational explanation to stop the progress before Eternal Creator.

Could you explain what you mean here? I'm confused.

 

[Anastasios]

Could you explain what you mean here? I'm confused.

Simply you can put forward or produce your theory about it. I am just curious about your opinion.

 

[hanif]

IF WE CAN CREATE LIVING THINGS WE CAN CREATE IT WITHOUT INTELLIGENCE.
SO FOR CREATION OF LIVING THINGS THERE MUST BE INTELLIGENCE.
There is no doubt that anyone with a sound mind would realise that the car was the product of an intelligent design-in other words, a factory-and wonder what it was doing there in the middle of the forest. The sudden emergence of a complex structure in a complete form, quite out of the blue, shows that this is the work of an intelligent agent. A complex system like the cell is no doubt created by a superior will and wisdom. In other words, it came into existence as a creation of God.
Briefly, unconscious atoms cannot form the cell by coming together. They cannot take a new decision and divide this cell into two, then take other decisions and create the professors who first invent the electron microscope and then examine their own cell structure under that microscope. Matter is an unconscious, lifeless heap, and it comes to life with God's superior creation.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Simply you can put forward or produce your theory about it. I am just curious about your opinion.

My opinion is that the universe is not the product of a thinking, moral Creator (or Creators), but the product of natural forces which are unthinking and amoral.

 

[Valjean]

IF WE CAN CREATE LIVING THINGS WE CAN CREATE IT WITHOUT INTELLIGENCE.
SO FOR CREATION OF LIVING THINGS THERE MUST BE INTELLIGENCE.
There is no doubt that anyone with a sound mind would realise that the car was the product of an intelligent design-in other words, a factory-and wonder what it was doing there in the middle of the forest. The sudden emergence of a complex structure in a complete form, quite out of the blue, shows that this is the work of an intelligent agent. A complex system like the cell is no doubt created by a superior will and wisdom. In other words, it came into existence as a creation of God.

What unimaginative creatures we are. We see something we don't understand and conclude that it must have been "made" in the same basic way we make things, by a greatly magnified Image of ourselves. Hubris!

Why is there no doubt that a cell is created by a "superior will?" Why can't it have come about as a chance accumulation of chemical reactions?
Perhaps a committee of faeries blueprinted it and the cell was assembled by quantum fabricator mice.

Don't dismiss the theories of learned men until you understand the reasoning behind them. Take some courses in statistics and biochemistry before making up fables.

 

[Moses the God Archetype*]

A question for those here who believe in a creator.

If scientists manage to create 'life' from raw materials, would your faith be altered in any way?

No my faith would not be altered in any way why, because mankind does not have the ability to create life from raw materials at this stage of the kali-yuga, and if he does it will not be intellitgent life such as the human being.

 

[Anastasios]

My opinion is that the universe is not the product of a thinking, moral Creator (or Creators), but the product of natural forces which are unthinking and amoral.

Do you mean everything happened by chance?
Where did these natural forces take their energy to produce things from?
If creation was started by unthinking and amoral initials, how did happen that it resulted thinking and moral beings (ie. men, animals) and from where or who did they get those features?

"If we deeply study this universe, we see that every thing culminates in a Creator. He is the ultimate and every thing is working under his guidance. If we look at different stages of human birth and growth, we see that as we go backward, we find we are moving towards weaker and weaker stage. Eventually we shall find that the growth starts from a clot of clinging substance. So human beings who themselves start from such a weak stage, how can they be their own creator. So it proves without any doubt that human beings are not their own creator. We see that if we start studying the birth process minutely, ultimately we will find ourselves at the limit of human knowledge. At that stage, all the worldly knowledges will reach their limit and will be totally exhausted about what had actually happened? So that is a stage where divine hand is working. Every scientist have to believe that all the processes of this universe ultimately reaches a point where their knowledge becomes inadequate or insufficient to describe them. Once somebody asked a bedouin that what proof does he has about the existence of God. He replied that if he saw excrement of a camel in the middle of a jungle, he could tell that a camel had passed through that jungle. Then after seeing so many different creatures in this universe, couldn't he tell that there is some creator of them?
Human nature in itself provides us with a strong inclination towards a belief in God. There are certain sins which human nature doesn't like to get involved in. For instance, relationship with Mother, sister and daughters, uncleanliness owing to certain discharges from body. These are certain things which even a atheist will not like to do. But if there is no fear of a super being, Why not to lie all the times?, why not to steal and commit adultery? What are the reasons that keep them away from these evils? If they do not feel the power of some unseen, then they should do whatever pleases them. Then truth and lie and justice and oppression should be all the same for them. Its only God's fear that is ruling on their hearts. Although their mind does not acknowledge the existence of God but the human nature created by God cannot defy it. So even an atheist at heart holds some view about God and judgment day. While in distress, everybody pray to a super-Being for relief. Why so, if they don't believe in that super-being, whom we call God?"

http://www.alislam.org/library/links/existence_God.html

 

[lilithu]

No my faith would not be altered in any way why, because mankind does not have the ability to create life from raw materials at this stage of the kali-yuga, and if he does it will not be intellitgent life such as the human being.

Are you saying that during the satya-yuga we would have been capable? During which yuga did we lose this ability?

 

[Moses the God Archetype*]

That would be the silver age as it were beloved following the golden age, being that negativity is gaining a greater hold in that yuga/age, mind you that not everyone during the satya-yuga has the ability to create in that manner.

 

[Dentonz]

A question for those here who believe in a creator.

If scientists manage to create 'life' from raw materials, would your faith be altered in any way?

"from raw materials" hmmm. When they create the raw materials from nothing and then create life, you'll be getting somewhere.

 

[jeffrey]

No. All life is made from 'raw' materials anyway; if science manages to reproduce all the necessary raw materials to produce life, that would still be life, and would provide a body for a soul.

Got to frubal you on that! Someone please refresh my memory.... When man cloned a sheep, did it not come out strange? Problems, like "soulless".. Is that a word? Anyways, I'd love for man to create life from scratch, because it would not be the same.
Man can create a robot. But it is "souless". It can do more things faster, but without reason, Can create something smarter, but still does not have the ability to exist without us.

 

[Valjean]

Do you mean everything happened by chance?
Where did these natural forces take their energy to produce things from?
If creation was started by unthinking and amoral initials, how did happen that it resulted thinking and moral beings (ie. men, animals) and from where or who did they get those features?

Those features are explained by natural selection.

"If we deeply study this universe, we see that every thing culminates in a Creator.

Those who do deeply study this universe conclude no such thing.

So it proves without any doubt that human beings are not their own creator.

I'm not even sure what you're talking about here, I'm thinking either embryology or phylogeny. Either way, you've not made your case.

We see that if we start studying the birth process minutely, ultimately we will find ourselves at the limit of human knowledge. At that stage, all the worldly knowledges will reach their limit and will be totally exhausted about what had actually happened? So that is a stage where divine hand is working.

Not only have we not reached the limit of knowledge, but our rate of understanding is increasing. There is no reason to conclude that we'll never fully understand things. A century ago most of today's knowledge was unknown and largely assumed unknowable. You underestimate our ingenuity and technology.

Every scientist have to believe that all the processes of this universe ultimately reaches a point where their knowledge becomes inadequate or insufficient to describe them.

No scientist I've ever met thinks this way. Scientists assume that what we don't know today someone will figure out tomorrow.

Then after seeing so many different creatures in this universe, couldn't he tell that there is some creator of them?

No. There's no reason to suppose that because a thing is complex it was designed and manufactured in the way we create artifacts. Science can explain the complexity positing only natural processes.

But if there is no fear of a super being, Why not to lie all the times?, why not to steal and commit adultery? What are the reasons that keep them away from these evils? If they do not feel the power of some unseen, then they should do whatever pleases them.

This may be true of children and people with poor moral development. The fact that you don't understand that there are people with strong, internalized moral principles, who don't need a threatening father in the sky to behave decently makes me suspect that you religious people may tend to be morally retarded. Perhaps the need for formalized, external rules, rewards and punishments to prevent one from running amok is proportional to one's religiosity.

So even an atheist at heart holds some view about God and judgment day. While in distress, everybody pray to a super-Being for relief.

This is simply not true. It sounds superficially clever, but there is just no data supporting it.

 

[lilithu]

Every scientist have to believe that all the processes of this universe ultimately reaches a point where their knowledge becomes inadequate or insufficient to describe them.

No scientist I've ever met thinks this way. Scientists assume that what we don't know today someone will figure out tomorrow.

I know some scientists who think that we're butting up against the limit of what we can explain. They tend to be in physics. This of course in no way suggests the existence of a creator. It only means that there may be things that we will never understand.

Other than that, carry on! :jam:

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Do you mean everything happened by chance?

No, not everything happened by chance.

Where did these natural forces take their energy to produce things from?

I don't know. Scientists don't even know exactly how tornadoes form. But that doesn't mean that they are created by a sentient, supernatural being (or beings).

If creation was started by unthinking and amoral initials, how did happen that it resulted thinking and moral beings (ie. men, animals) and from where or who did they get those features?

To answer that question, we would have to examine everything from the fluctuations which produced asymmetries in the first moments of the big bang to the expansion and cooling of the universe, chemical evolution and the formation of elements heavier than hydrogen and helium in stars, abiogenesis, evolution, the history of life on Earth and the rise of mammals, the emergence of hominid species and the extinction of all but one (ours), history, psychology, sociology, neuroscience, etc. Many many books could be written on any of these subjects, and there would still be plenty of questions left unanswered.

I don't claim to know precisely how thinking beings like humans arose; I just know that human nature is such that we tend to automatically fill the unknown or the mysterious with cosmic meaning and explain those things as the actions of thinking being(s) not unlike ourselves. However, I see little compelling evidence that a thinking, moral being (or beings) created us.

"If we deeply study this universe, we see that every thing culminates in a Creator. He is the ultimate and every thing is working under his guidance. If we look at different stages of human birth and growth, we see that as we go backward, we find we are moving towards weaker and weaker stage. Eventually we shall find that the growth starts from a clot of clinging substance. So human beings who themselves start from such a weak stage, how can they be their own creator. So it proves without any doubt that human beings are not their own creator. We see that if we start studying the birth process minutely, ultimately we will find ourselves at the limit of human knowledge. At that stage, all the worldly knowledges will reach their limit and will be totally exhausted about what had actually happened? So that is a stage where divine hand is working.

I'm having a hard time making sense of this.

Every scientist have to believe that all the processes of this universe ultimately reaches a point where their knowledge becomes inadequate or insufficient to describe them.

Currently, that is most definitely true.

Once somebody asked a bedouin that what proof does he has about the existence of God. He replied that if he saw excrement of a camel in the middle of a jungle, he could tell that a camel had passed through that jungle. Then after seeing so many different creatures in this universe, couldn't he tell that there is some creator of them?

No, that would be begging the question. After seeing so many different creatures on Earth, he could infer that there is "something" that created them. Whether or not that "something" was a thinking being or unthinking forces of nature is the question.

Human nature in itself provides us with a strong inclination towards a belief in God. There are certain sins which human nature doesn't like to get involved in. For instance, relationship with Mother, sister and daughters, uncleanliness owing to certain discharges from body. These are certain things which even a atheist will not like to do.

You mean like flying planes into buildings?

But if there is no fear of a super being, Why not to lie all the times?, why not to steal and commit adultery? What are the reasons that keep them away from these evils? If they do not feel the power of some unseen, then they should do whatever pleases them.

In general, people DO in fact do whatever pleases them; and it often pleases people to not lie all the time, not commit aldultery, etc. The reason it pleases them to do so is studied by many psychologists, sociologists, and even evolutionary biologists. Many species work together for the benefit of the community....and, like human communities, many other organisms have 'criminals' or 'cheaters' who try to take advantage of the situation.