If there is a life after death.....

[TagliatelliMonster]

They are? That has not been my experience of how the word "life" is used at all.

Can you give me an example where "life" doesn't refer to physical things that are alive?

 

[Trailblazer]

Likewise, the beliefs are misleading people to think that there is another place to go.

It is only misleading if there is no other place to go, although it is not a place, it is a spiritual dimension.

"but you do not know that is the" ....truth.

No, I do not know it as a fact, but that doesn't mean it is not the truth.
It may or may not be the truth. I believe we will all find out someday.

 

[danieldemol]

The time-based causal nature of this universe is perfect for learning.

There is far too much to learn in one mere physical lifetime.

Between physical lives each will experience God's Unconditional Love. It is a Love that heals all hurt and feels so good and so complete that one would do anything for it. God shows us all it has never ever been about punishment.

Who knows how long one basks in God's Unconditional Love but there comes a time when kiddies must go back to school. One is born into a new physical body with new parameters and new lessons to learn.

There will come a time through many many lifetimes when a physical body will no longer be needed. Eternity has purpose. When all the lessons are learned, one can teach.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Just curious what you make of statements like this since you come across pro-Baha'i;

'As to what thou hast written concerning “Reincarnation”: Believing in reincarnation is one of the old tenets held by most nations and creeds, as well as by the Greek and Roman philosophers and wise men, the old Egyptians and the chief Assyrians. But all these sayings and superstitions are vanity in the sight of God.'

Source: Bahá'í Reference Library - Tablets of Abdul-Baha Abbas, Pages 642-645

 

[Trailblazer]

Can you give me an example where "life" doesn't refer to physical things that are alive?

The life of the soul after death.

 

[PureX]

My theory would be that we exist as a kind of unique energy pattern within in a realm of existence made up of many forms and expressions of pure energy. Perhaps this is our true realm of being, and living in a material body was just a kind of incubation period for us. Or maybe a realm that we can return to if or when we find ourselves in need of further development.

 

[Quintessence]

Can you give me an example where "life" doesn't refer to physical things that are alive?

Colloquial uses of the term, of which there are plenty. It's routinely used to refer to personal experience, for example "life lessons." It's routinely used to ask after someone's wellness, for example "how's life been treating you?" As a synonymn for existence in general, for example "what is the meaning of life?" And so on. It's not hard to think of examples. "Life" is used in ways that aren't specifically referencing the technical biological definition constantly, if not more often than the technical usage. I notice the same thing with many other words that have a scientific/technical meaning, from "energy" to "evolution," from "theory" to "accuracy."

 

[Quintessence]

The life of the soul after death.

Also, that. Thanks for another.

 

[Bird123]

Just curious what you make of statements like this since you come across pro-Baha'i;

'As to what thou hast written concerning “Reincarnation”: Believing in reincarnation is one of the old tenets held by most nations and creeds, as well as by the Greek and Roman philosophers and wise men, the old Egyptians and the chief Assyrians. But all these sayings and superstitions are vanity in the sight of God.'

Source: Bahá'í Reference Library - Tablets of Abdul-Baha Abbas, Pages 642-645

Yes, it clearly shows Baha doesn't really understand God at all. So many religions claim they come from God, however when they teach and value so many of the petty things mankind holds so dear, how could they really come from God? They could not!! On the other hand, people have been taught to value beliefs since childhood and they also value or do not understand so many of the petty things mankind holds so dear so they are stuck.

At what point are beliefs more important than Math? Everything about God will add up. Ignoring this in favor of any beliefs leads one away from God and the Real Truth. Of course, This world is about Learning and many must go through all the steps in order to see. Still, one can place Real Truth on their plate to see so that when they are ready, that light bulb will go off over their heads and they will Discover the Real Truth for themselves.

Anytime one can place Truth in the world, one copies God. This can be about any subject. It is a Gift to the world. It is there waiting to be Discovered. It doesn't matter what others choose to do. How long did mankind watch birds fly before they figured out how? If the knowledge was not in the world staring everyone in the face, would mankind ever have learned how to fly??

If one drops a pebble in the water, how far will the ripples travel? It could span Generations. One may never personally see all the changes, however the changes will be there none-the-less.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, it clearly shows Baha doesn't really understand God at all.

And you do.

So many religions claim they come from God,

Like the religion of @Bird123.

 

[Valjean]

Can you give me an example where "life" doesn't refer to physical things that are alive?

The 'Eastern' view rests on the assumption of a single, Universal Consciousness, permeating the universe like spacetime.
Certain configurations of matter can "tap into" this reservoir, like a toaster or lamp into an electrical mains. Objects with this capacity are deemed "alive."

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The life of the soul after death.

What is that?

Just because you can string words together doesn't mean it's an actual thing.
I can talk about the "life" of the extra-dimensional immaterial leprechauns as well. Or about the wooden chair of which the wood doesn't come from a tree.
And yes, I can also talk about the bachelor that is married.


You might think I'm just trolling when saying that, but I'm really not.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Colloquial uses of the term, of which there are plenty.

But this thread isn't about "colloguial" (metaphorical?) uses of the term, is it?

It's routinely used to refer to personal experience, for example "life lessons."

As in: lessons you learn throughout life. ie, while "alive".

It's routinely used to ask after someone's wellness, for example "how's life been treating you?"

Yes, life as opposed to death. ie, again while "alive".

As a synonymn for existence in general, for example "what is the meaning of life?"

Again, life being physical organic things that are alive....

And so on. It's not hard to think of examples.

Well, I don't think any of your examples referred to anything but physical organic living things...

A better example imo would for example to say "the vulcano is still alive" or "the lifetime of a star". In that case though, we would be speaking metaphorically.
We'ld be talking about the volcano being active as opposed to dormant or a star that still has fuel to burn before it goes super-nova or whatever.

"Life" is used in ways that aren't specifically referencing the technical biological definition constantly, if not more often than the technical usage. I notice the same thing with many other words that have a scientific/technical meaning, from "energy" to "evolution," from "theory" to "accuracy."

Sure and I get that.
But this thread is specifically about "life"-life, as if there is such a thing after death has already occurred.
That's the use of "life" I'm addressing here.

 

[Quintessence]

But this thread isn't about "colloguial" (metaphorical?) uses of the term, is it?

Why wouldn't it be? There's certainly no reason to limit consideration to literalist or scientific uses of the term considering the topic we're examining is firmly within the realm of philosophy and religion - where constraining ourselves to literalism and scientific perspectives makes very little sense. The OP specifically mentions the soul, in fact - a term typically used to reference the aspects of being that specifically transcend or endure after physical life/existence ends. I get the impression you don't believe in any of that, which is fine. It would explain why you cannot apply a term like "life/existence" to include the soul, though.

A better example imo would for example to say "the vulcano is still alive" or "the lifetime of a star". In that case though, we would be speaking metaphorically.

An animist such as myself wouldn't be. I thought it prudent to use examples that a non-animist would understand better because my experience in trying to articulate animism to outsiders has not gone particularly well in the past. So pardon in advance if I don't clarify further.

 

[Trailblazer]

What is that?

Just because you can string words together doesn't mean it's an actual thing.
I can talk about the "life" of the extra-dimensional immaterial leprechauns as well. Or about the wooden chair of which the wood doesn't come from a tree.
And yes, I can also talk about the bachelor that is married.


You might think I'm just trolling when saying that, but I'm really not.

You asked me a question and I answered it.
I did not say that the soul is an actual thing just because 'I believe' that it is. My belief has nothing to do with it.

Logically speaking, a soul either exists or not, and just because it cannot be seen or proven to exist that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Just because the soul is a mystery that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

“The nature of the soul after death can never be described, nor is it meet and permissible to reveal its whole character to the eyes of men. The Prophets and Messengers of God have been sent down for the sole purpose of guiding mankind to the straight Path of Truth. The purpose underlying Their revelation hath been to educate all men, that they may, at the hour of death, ascend, in the utmost purity and sanctity and with absolute detachment, to the throne of the Most High.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 156-157​

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“Thou hast asked Me concerning the nature of the soul. Know, verily, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel. It is the first among all created things to declare the excellence of its Creator, the first to recognize His glory, to cleave to His truth, and to bow down in adoration before Him.” Gleanings, pp. 158-159​

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“And now concerning thy question regarding the soul of man and its survival after death. Know thou of a truth that the soul, after its separation from the body, will continue to progress until it attaineth the presence of God, in a state and condition which neither the revolution of ages and centuries, nor the changes and chances of this world, can alter. It will endure as long as the Kingdom of God, His sovereignty, His dominion and power will endure. It will manifest the signs of God and His attributes, and will reveal His loving kindness and bounty.” Gleanings, pp. 155-156​

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Of course, the same can be said of God - God either exists or not, and proof has NOTHING to do with it. Proof is just what some people WANT.
Just because God is a mystery for the most part that doesn't mean God doesn't exist.

 

[Whateverist]

I do not understand the 'connection' between the two thoughts expressed in your two sentences above.

When your body dies (and you close your eyes for the last time), and if your memories of your life are gone, why would that mean that that you did not have the opportunity your grow your own unique soul?

I do not understand the 'connection' between the two thoughts expressed in your two sentences above.

When your body dies (and you close your eyes for the last time), and if your memories of your life are gone, why would that mean that that you did not have the opportunity your grow your own unique soul?

I guess I wasn’t clear. I just think that we are of what is everlasting but what sets us apart is also part of what we are and I suspect but do not know is entirely mortal. I was just opining that it is fitting that the mortal part clear out and leave the stage to the next group.

 

[muhammad_isa]

The 'Eastern' view rests on the assumption of a single, Universal Consciousness, permeating the universe like spacetime..

Yes .. that's quite a good description .. universal consciousness .. alive, aware!

 

[Bird123]

And you do.

Like the religion of @Bird123.

I have taken the journey to Discover what the real truth is. I know much about God yet, I have found there is so much more to learn.

I always do my best to copy God. Why? When one copies High Intelligence, the results come out so much better and one learns so very much on the journey. I find it is a great way to acquire Wisdom. I do this of my own choice. God is never going to tell anyone what to choose or intimidate, manipulate or coerce those choices.

God belongs to no religion. In my attempt to copy God, I do not belong to a religion either.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

I have taken the journey to Discover what the real truth is. I know much about God yet, I have found there is so much more to learn.

One cannot Discover the real truth about God by looking in this world.

I always do my best to copy God.

You cannot copy God because you cannot see God or know what God is doing.

 

[osgart]

The soul is but a drop in an infinite ocean of ultimate reality. An ocean of living and non living intelligence and whatever that ocean can produce. This physical reality is inferior to the ultimate reality. The ultimate reality evolves, learns and is of primitive sophistication. A vast ocean of potentiality. We go through cycles of creation and destruction. Space, time, energy, matter emerge from this ultimate reality. There's no telling if it's limited or limitless. It's been brute fact mixed with purposes so far. There's no telling the future of an afterlife, and just how far a soul can transcend or is bound to what is created.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Why wouldn't it be?

So the "afterlife" is just a metaphore? It doesn't actually exist?
Do you really think that is what the OP means?

There's certainly no reason to limit consideration to literalist or scientific uses of the term considering the topic we're examining is firmly within the realm of philosophy and religion - where constraining ourselves to literalism and scientific perspectives makes very little sense. The OP specifically mentions the soul, in fact - a term typically used to reference the aspects of being that specifically transcend or endure after physical life/existence ends. I get the impression you don't believe in any of that, which is fine. It would explain why you cannot apply a term like "life/existence" to include the soul, though.

This is the point I'm making. Me not believing in X shouldn't be an issue if X is actually real. All it takes is showing it is real and I'll believe it.
But until that is done, there isn't anything to talk about.

Meanwhile, the OP is using words that have definitions and which refer to real things in actual reality.

It's like when they talk about a wooden chair. And I ask from which tree and they reply with "it doesn't come from a tree" (= it's "not physical life").
Well... what is that?

That's what I'm saying... what are you talking about? Words mean what they mean. I can start talking about a "chair" and mean some extra-dimensional immaterial saddle to sit on a unicorn. Just because I can make up definitions for words that don't match what those words actually mean, doesn't mean it actually also makes sense.