If There is Only One God, Then How Do We Know There is Only One God?

[CG Didymus]

Do you believe there is any such thing as spirit? Do you have a spirit? We know you have a body, but do you have a spirit? And if you do, what is it's purpose?

Who knows? That's the problem, it's like proving there's a God or if there's only one God. Religions tell us we have souls and/or spirits, but they all say something different. Some say the body is only temporary and that our spirit is eternal. Some say that if while the spirit is stuck inside a sinful, evil person, it's the poor spirit that's going to suffer in some spirit place in the afterlife. I could easily believe that it's all people guessing what reality is... that there is some spiritual reality beyond the physical world around us. And, since there's so many different beliefs about the afterlife, I think it very well could be guess work. I hope there is something more, but I really hope it's not like what most Christians say it is.

 

[Sonofason]

Who knows? That's the problem, it's like proving there's a God or if there's only one God. Religions tell us we have souls and/or spirits, but they all say something different. Some say the body is only temporary and that our spirit is eternal. Some say that if while the spirit is stuck inside a sinful, evil person, it's the poor spirit that's going to suffer in some spirit place in the afterlife. I could easily believe that it's all people guessing what reality is... that there is some spiritual reality beyond the physical world around us. And, since there's so many different beliefs about the afterlife, I think it very well could be guess work. I hope there is something more, but I really hope it's not like what most Christians say it is.

And of course that is where you have to remain, until something happens which causes you to have a different opinion. We do not choose our beliefs. Our beliefs are a product of our experiences and our perceptions of those experiences. And our perceptions of those experiences are greatly influenced by other preconceived notions that we have accumulated through years of experience and our perception of them. It is guess work. But it does happen that people do form opinions and beliefs as a result of their experiences. If you were in a desert and you were thirsty, you might hope that there is water nearby, but you will not be drinking any water if you do not search for the water.

 

[Sonofason]

Haha. By their form.

Shiva will be dancing (on a prostrate human ego), clad in elephant skin, will have a rattle and a glob of fire in his hands. Vishnu will be dark, will wear yellow clothes, will have the Conch shell, Mace, Discus and a lotus in his hands; and a five-headed cobra for a canopy (actually the cobra, Sheshanaga, has a thousand hoods, but that is a bit excessive to picturise). So simple, so obvious.

That should be a question to Bahais. We do not believe that there is just one God. We have so many Gods (and Goddesses) that no one ever has made a count of them.

So what exactly is the function of these two gods? What is their purpose? What have they done?

 

[Sonofason]

I sure am. But that was the point of the Greek Pantheon. They are never presented as Abrahamic-like Gods. Their whole point was to be illustrations of human emotions and human dramas.

The God of Abraham/Ibrahim is explicitly unhappy with comparisons with such Gods. One of the Ten Commandments of Christians even makes a point of warning against caring about those.

Then again, ever more frequently I find myself wondering if people actually believed in Ibrahim's God 1400 or more years ago. I suspect that only in recent centuries people lost track of how dangerous it can be to hold belief in such an entity. Back then, most people would be too busy with family and survival for that to be much of an issue. Not so much these days.

He sure feels rather unsuitable for belief-centered uses. Particularly when one reads the scriptures, it feels a lot more like a personification of tribal or nationalistic ideals intead. He is sure way too belligerent and emotionally dubious to inspire much in the way of admiration.

One can only wonder what those early Jewish People, Christian and Muslims would do or feel when faced with modern people who are too distracted from everyday affairs to avoid going off the rail due to excessive attachment to scriptures. Or if they have been grown unaware of the Abrahamic God and instead learned about Krishna, Devi, Balder or the Tao.

I personally see what may very well be a direct relationship between the Greek Pantheon and the beings briefly mentioned in Genesis 6.

 

[Aupmanyav]

So what exactly is the function of these two gods? What is their purpose? What have they done?

They have done what Gods are supposed to do - create, sustain and destroy (multiple times in Hinduism - it is the 7th 'Manvantara' of the 51st 'Kalpa', therefore the 707th eon in the current creation). Purpose - Godly fun, nothing better to do.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Sure. But first, I feel the need to express that I really appreciate your openness. I am all too aware of how rare it is and how frequently people prefer avoidance.

Bonus points for asking me not to use quotations. I find it very much helpful when people make a point of using their own words. It is refreshing and encouraged that you seem to feel likewise.

Spoilers for the preliminary argument.

Spoiler

We were talking about the understanding that a God (or at least a strictly monotheistic God that does not have rivals, complementary Gods, avatars, aspects or true relatives/siblings) is defined by its supremacy.

I found that understanding unworkable and self-contradictory (which is much of the reason why I have little reason to hesitate in rejecting the entire Abrahamic family of faiths as entirely unworkable - a bit of an irony since many of them make such a point of claiming to be Supreme Truth, even hurting their ability to actually function as religions).

Then we came to the statement from Mestemia (which I quite agree with) that most definitions of God are problematic when questioned.

I somewhat disagree with him when he then states that most people refuse to put those up for questioning, though. I think definitions of God are not supposed to be bluntly "true" or "false" in the first place. I said as much on various threads around here on occasion.

Gods have various constructive uses. But one of them, far as the reality of facts gives witness, is certainly not acquiring the attribute of "truth". That very consistently and very regrettably spoils and poisons them when it is attempted. Their strictly personal nature and use should be recognized and respected, and we should no longer hurt ourselves by imposing expectations of being "true" (except for one's own personal practice) upon them.

But I suspect you had a somewhat different reading of Mestemia's post, because you then mentioned confusion. That surprised me. It seemed to have little connection to what he had said. So I attempted to ask why you thought so.

That's what we are here for, or should be, at least; open minded discussions

It is sad tho that some people abuse this and resort to the passive-aggressive approach. I sometimes try to hold back, and succeed in some, but still reply the same way some other times. Well Anyways.

Truth of God is something subjective and personal. No one has the right to impose it on others, and it is hallow talk to be blunt about proving it as absolute to those whom you already don't want that.

The confusion I meant is that definition of God is not fixed in different beliefs. Some say God is supreme is his will and power, that He's above having spouses and children, His nature is above that of a human. Some others say there can be more than one god and its okay that a god is not supreme due to sharing supremacy. And finally some others almost completely equal God to humans that they even name call Him and insult Him directly. Answers to the OP all depended on this diversity that at some point mind blow moments took place.

That's basically what I meant by that agreement. Even if it was a misunderstanding, it answers your question.

 

[LuisDantas]

That's what we are here for, or should be, at least; open minded discussions

It is sad tho that some people abuse this and resort to the passive-aggressive approach. I sometimes try to hold back, and succeed in some, but still reply the same way some other times. Well Anyways.

That is actually quite the feat. We are talking about matters that are very passional for many people due to their very natures.

Truth of God is something subjective and personal. No one has the right to impose it on others, and it is hallow talk to be blunt about proving it as absolute to those whom you already don't want that.

The confusion I meant is that definition of God is not fixed in different beliefs.

Very true.

Some say God is supreme is his will and power, that He's above having spouses and children, His nature is above that of a human. Some others say there can be more than one god and its okay that a god is not supreme due to sharing supremacy. And finally some others almost completely equal God to humans that they even name call Him and insult Him directly. Answers to the OP all depended on this diversity that at some point mind blow moments took place.

That's basically what I meant by that agreement. Even if it was a misunderstanding, it answers your question.

I guess it does. Sometimes I dearly wish we spent less time with such a concept.

 

[Sonofason]

They have done what Gods are supposed to do - create, sustain and destroy (multiple times in Hinduism - it is the 7th 'Manvantara' of the 51st 'Kalpa', therefore the 707th eon in the current creation). Purpose - Godly fun, nothing better to do.

I was trying to ask; what is each god's specific function in creating, sustaining, and destroying?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

ut all I know is that if there are multiple Gods, as in true Gods in the full supreme meaning of the word, then this life would be screwed

May I interrupt...

No disrespect, and, wouldn't one god be just as be able to mess things up as more than one god?

How does the number of gods make one more organized than many? Especially if they all work together?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Oh, you have experience only of jealous Abrahamic Gods. Hindu Gods do not fight. (Sometimes they do, but the conflict always ends in reconciliation).
Here, find all the three major Hindu deities together Vishnu, Shiva and Mother Goddess while Mother Kali looks on. Hari-Hara, the combined form of Lord Vishnu and Lord Shiva.Lord Shiva giving the discus to Lord Vishnu. Lord Rama, an avatara of Lord Vishnu, worshiping Lord Shiva. And the three Gods, Brhma, Vishnu and Shiva like to be photographed together. Same for their spouses. They are civilized people.

View attachment 14724

Beautiful!

 

[muhammad_isa]

...
No disrespect, and, wouldn't one god be just as be able to mess things up as more than one god?

How does the number of gods make one more organized than many? Especially if they all work together?

A family of gods .. hmmm
Almighty God is not a person .. He is not physical .. He is neither male or female .. He has no mother or father, and no progeny.

Many 'gods' reminds me of aliens .. and somehow, singular or plural seems to be beside the point .. 'gods' sound like they were created, and not a spiritual concept

 

[Sonofason]

May I interrupt...

No disrespect, and, wouldn't one god be just as be able to mess things up as more than one god?

How does the number of gods make one more organized than many? Especially if they all work together?

I honestly don't see the point in multiple, omniscient, omnipotent supreme gods, when only one is necessary to accomplish the work that all of them could do working together.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

A family of gods .. hmmm
Almighty God is not a person .. He is not physical .. He is neither male or female .. He has no mother or father, and no progeny.

Many 'gods' reminds me of aliens .. and somehow, singular or plural seems to be beside the point .. 'gods' sound like they were created, and not a spiritual concept

Naw. Gods/spirits aren't created. In my faith, they aren't supreme and almighty. However, since god isn't a person and supreme and almighty are characteristics not unique to human ideas (therefore from human mind), I'd say god is beyond that. A family of gods, if one like, is, well a family. They (instead of he) work together. We are both using pronouns "They" and "He" except that "they" creates a more personal bond with people. When you go to the gods, you are connecting with a unity of spirits. It's like when a person falls and a group of people holding a parachute holds you up and carries you through the crowd. Can't do that with one person.

We can receive hugs from one person but how much more grand to receive hugs from a family. If god is indeed love, etc, why would more than one god be less love than one? If anything, you have more love because it doesn't become a submission but a unity between spirit and person.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I honestly don't see the point in multiple, omniscient, omnipotent supreme gods, when only one is necessary to accomplish the work that all of them could do working together.

How can one god do everything on his own? It takes a team to build and each part of the team has unique skills, for lack of better words, and characters that puts their unique touch to creation. Supreme, omniscient, ominipotent are human ideas of what we "want" to have or ideas from humans. Spirits, if talking in general, doesn't have human characteristics nor are the ones, needs, and ideas of humans. If spirit(s) that are not souls of the deceased exist, if they are not human concepts, what are they? What is their nature? Once you base it on a book, it's a human concept. Once you define it with a name, its a human concept.

So, in general and logically speaking, a team is stronger to sustain creation than just one person. I don't see how one person can handle everything. Even more so, how we can have so many characteristics but one god only displays but a mirror (image of) less than one percent god of Abraham believers say we possess. I don't see the sense in it.

 

[Sonofason]

How can one god do everything on his own? It takes a team to build and each part of the team has unique skills, for lack of better words, and characters that puts their unique touch to creation. Supreme, omniscient, ominipotent are human ideas of what we "want" to have or ideas from humans. Spirits, if talking in general, doesn't have human characteristics nor are the ones, needs, and ideas of humans. If spirit(s) that are not souls of the deceased exist, if they are not human concepts, what are they? What is their nature? Once you base it on a book, it's a human concept. Once you define it with a name, its a human concept.

So, in general and logically speaking, a team is stronger to sustain creation than just one person. I don't see how one person can handle everything. Even more so, how we can have so many characteristics but one god only displays but a mirror (image of) less than one percent god of Abraham believers say we possess. I don't see the sense in it.

Whether or not it is absolutely true or not, whether it is nothing more than human wishful thinking or not, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth". If this is true, multiple gods are not necessary. If it is not true, maybe you are right. And God is not a person, that can be limited by the limitations that limit human beings. We believe what we believe, and we do not believe what we do not believe. There are things that happen, things we have been subjected to, and things that we subject ourselves to that cause us to believe what we believe. I happen to believe that there is only one God. If of course you could convince me that I am wrong, I suppose my opinion and belief would likely change. The fact that one person, or even many people do not see sense in something is not an indication that there is no sense to it. I personally believe one God makes the most sense. I have in my opinion only experienced one God. As I have said before, I could be wrong about that, but I do not believe that I am wrong. It truly is what we believe that matters most. That is what prompts us to act in certain ways, not what truly is. But I will admit, if I am wrong, I'd like someone to convince me that I am indeed wrong. Until then, I'm pretty much stuck with the beliefs that I have.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Whether or not it is absolutely true or not, whether it is nothing more than human wishful thinking or not, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth". If this is true, multiple gods are not necessary. If it is not true, maybe you are right. And God is not a person, that can be limited by the limitations that limit human beings. We believe what we believe, and we do not believe what we do not believe. There are things that happen, things we have been subjected to, and things that we subject ourselves to that cause us to believe what we believe. I happen to believe that there is only one God. If of course you could convince me that I am wrong, I suppose my opinion and belief would likely change. The fact that one person, or even many people do not see sense in something is not an indication that there is no sense to it. I personally believe one God makes the most sense. I have in my opinion only experienced one God. As I have said before, I could be wrong about that, but I do not believe that I am wrong. It truly is what we believe that matters most. That is what prompts us to act in certain ways, not what truly is. But I will admit, if I am wrong, I'd like someone to convince me that I am indeed wrong. Until then, I'm pretty much stuck with the beliefs that I have.

edit I'm more asking how does it not make sense logically that there can be more than one god. I don't believe your beliefs will change; and, I don't consider gods I believe in gods because I do not worship them.

However, terminology aside, gods are spirits. As such, you can have more than one spirit just as more than one human beings and any other thing and living on earth and universe. The spirits are a part of reality; and, are not outside the laws of nature (not science) nature which includes what some call the supernatural while others the natural. It's all in one "plain" and one universe.

Pretending for a moment spirits are not souls, that doesn't mean there can't be more than one. It just means that they work together. Using the word team doesn't mean it has to be team made up of humans. Team means more than one thing or person (or spirit, who/whatever) working together as a unit.

More than one god reflects and to some religions Is the different characteristics and aspects of the natural world and characteristics of humans. Where we get what makes us unique is from our ancestral spirits and spirits in general (collectively).

To say there is only one is limiting the spirits as if squeezing a rainbow into one color. That would mean, politically speaking, that there must be unity under one rule and one color. Life doesn't work that way. There is a flourish of different colors under the sun. One god sounds like communism. Many gods sounds like a democracy. Taking out humans and just focusing on the words, why would one want to be under the rule and control over one when one can be in a relationship with a array of spirits that in their own nature guide each person in life.

If I believed in god(s) as creator and entities in their own right, I'd be a hard polytheist. It just makes more sense. Unity just makes more sense than hierarchy. Also, it would probably be less wars when everyone can connect with the spirits that call to them rather than try to unify themselves with one spirit they may or may not connect to. (Less atheists).

 

[Sonofason]

edit I'm more asking how does it not make sense logically that there can be more than one god. I don't believe your beliefs will change; and, I don't consider gods I believe in gods because I do not worship them.

However, terminology aside, gods are spirits. As such, you can have more than one spirit just as more than one human beings and any other thing and living on earth and universe. The spirits are a part of reality; and, are not outside the laws of nature (not science) nature which includes what some call the supernatural while others the natural. It's all in one "plain" and one universe.

Pretending for a moment spirits are not souls, that doesn't mean there can't be more than one. It just means that they work together. Using the word team doesn't mean it has to be team made up of humans. Team means more than one thing or person (or spirit, who/whatever) working together as a unit.

More than one god reflects and to some religions Is the different characteristics and aspects of the natural world and characteristics of humans. Where we get what makes us unique is from our ancestral spirits and spirits in general (collectively).

To say there is only one is limiting the spirits as if squeezing a rainbow into one color. That would mean, politically speaking, that there must be unity under one rule and one color. Life doesn't work that way. There is a flourish of different colors under the sun. One god sounds like communism. Many gods sounds like a democracy. Taking out humans and just focusing on the words, why would one want to be under the rule and control over one when one can be in a relationship with a array of spirits that in their own nature guide each person in life.

If I believed in god(s) as creator and entities in their own right, I'd be a hard polytheist. It just makes more sense. Unity just makes more sense than hierarchy. Also, it would probably be less wars when everyone can connect with the spirits that call to them rather than try to unify themselves with one spirit they may or may not connect to. (Less atheists).

We apparently have different working definitions of what God is. That is fine, but we can never see eye to eye because of that. While I agree that God is spirit, if other spirits should indeed exist other than the one that I consider to be God, I could not consider them to be God also. In my mind, there can be only one God. If there should be other entities that other people call gods, I could not call them gods because I don't believe that they are gods. I don't believe any of those spirits ever were gods.. I personally do not accept definitions of god that refer to gods as simply being might powerful rulers. And I do not accept your definition of a god as simply being any spirit. I believe that spirits may exist, and I realize that people did and still do believe that some of those spirits are and/or were gods. But I don't. Some ancient Greeks believed in a plethora of gods, as do many religions of today. While I believe that those entities may have existed or might even possibly still exist today, I do not consider them to be gods.

If you read Genesis 6 we see the author speaking of mighty men of renown that the author apparently believed to have existed in those days. The author's claim was that they were not your average human being. But the author did not refer to them as gods, and neither would I. If those beings truly existed, I believe they are a good explanation for those beings that were worshiped by the ancient Greeks and many other ancient cultures. Those beings may even be the basis for the beliefs held by many of today's polytheistic religions.

I have one natural father. I do not need many. At work, I have one boss. I do not need many. I understand that there is a hierarchy in the work place oftentimes, where we are subordinate to several people, but when you follow that hierarchy up the ladder, you usually find one boss. We have one president. I understand as well that some governmental bodies are made up of several people. But even in this case, while they are many, they represent themselves as one. There is only one God.

 

[Aupmanyav]

He is neither male or female .. He has no mother or father, and no progeny.

That is certainly alien. On Earth we have men, women, the otherway inclined, families, neighbors, etc.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I understand you to an extent; but, it still doesn't make sense. Gods aren't "just spirits". It's a collective term to describe a family of ancestral spirits, environmental, spirits from our heritage/history, and not limited to. God just means object or person of worship. However, if you want to get to the nature of god, then god would be to me spirit, to others creator, and to others consciousnesses. I don't accept these are all the same but the context mirrors each other so much that I don't see how believers can't see the relationship between them.

If god the creator is spirit, who is he a spirit of? What defines him as a creator? There are many supreme gods according to other religions. There are many other creators according to even other religions. However, I notice say in African traditions, they actually define the nature of the creator rather than just saying "he creates" or "he is love" or so have you. The creator is solid and has a personality and literally interacts in and with people. That's spirit. We understand the spirit by our ancestors and environment (and above). It's just a beautiful thing.

I wouldn't say unfortunately, but I don't have scripture to go by and the bible isn't my authority; so, it's hard to understand what you say if you're basing it off the Bible literal rather than your comments and beliefs itself in your words.

In some religions you have a boss or more than one boss and you have many supervisors. Some bosses take roles in certain parts of the day while others in another part. Some are temporary, others are not. However, depending on the company, they work together as a whole.

If you are running your own business, sure, there is one boss and everyone else is below you; however, that's not how I see life. We depend on each other and as a humanity, our reflection of who we are, if there are entities called gods, it would be a reflection of who the gods are.

I just don't understand the "one god" thing. I don't believe in a creator and spirits guide us, they don't create us. God is an object or person of worship; so, spirits is the best term if you wanted to describe god or gods as an entity or entities. However, the spirits I'm talking about, their nature are ancestral, historical, heritage, kin, and above. They are souls of the deceased and souls of the environment. These are their nature.

God of Abraham doesn't have a concrete nature like this. Love, compassion, etc are emotions they aren't concrete terms that define god as an actually existing person. He sounds abstract.

If god exists and he is the only god, what is his nature and how can you define it in concrete terms so it makes sense that only one god can exist in that context instead of more than one?

 

[Sonofason]

I understand you to an extent; but, it still doesn't make sense. Gods aren't "just spirits". It's a collective term to describe a family of ancestral spirits, environmental, spirits from our heritage/history, and not limited to. God just means object or person of worship. However, if you want to get to the nature of god, then god would be to me spirit, to others creator, and to others consciousnesses. I don't accept these are all the same but the context mirrors each other so much that I don't see how believers can't see the relationship between them.

If god the creator is spirit, who is he a spirit of? What defines him as a creator? There are many supreme gods according to other religions. There are many other creators according to even other religions. However, I notice say in African traditions, they actually define the nature of the creator rather than just saying "he creates" or "he is love" or so have you. The creator is solid and has a personality and literally interacts in and with people. That's spirit. We understand the spirit by our ancestors and environment (and above). It's just a beautiful thing.

I wouldn't say unfortunately, but I don't have scripture to go by and the bible isn't my authority; so, it's hard to understand what you say if you're basing it off the Bible literal rather than your comments and beliefs itself in your words.

In some religions you have a boss or more than one boss and you have many supervisors. Some bosses take roles in certain parts of the day while others in another part. Some are temporary, others are not. However, depending on the company, they work together as a whole.

If you are running your own business, sure, there is one boss and everyone else is below you; however, that's not how I see life. We depend on each other and as a humanity, our reflection of who we are, if there are entities called gods, it would be a reflection of who the gods are.

I just don't understand the "one god" thing. I don't believe in a creator and spirits guide us, they don't create us. God is an object or person of worship; so, spirits is the best term if you wanted to describe god or gods as an entity or entities. However, the spirits I'm talking about, their nature are ancestral, historical, heritage, kin, and above. They are souls of the deceased and souls of the environment. These are their nature.

God of Abraham doesn't have a concrete nature like this. Love, compassion, etc are emotions they aren't concrete terms that define god as an actually existing person. He sounds abstract.

If god exists and he is the only god, what is his nature and how can you define it in concrete terms so it makes sense that only one god can exist in that context instead of more than one?

Jesus was a man. He was a material being. The Spirit of Christ (Jesus) is Love. God is Love. God is the Spirit of Christ. Jesus is the physical manifestation of God. The body is a manifestation of the Spirit. We do that which our Spirit inclines us to do. Christ did the only thing He is capable of doing...Love.