Dunemeister
Well-Known Member
Pssst. Sidon is asking how those who believe in God handle the so-called silence or coyness of God. So your "answer" is irrelevant.
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If there's a god - why isn't it obvious?
- Thread starter Sidon
- Start date
Pssst. Sidon is asking how those who believe in God handle the so-called silence or coyness of God. So your "answer" is irrelevant.
dust1n
Zindīq
It proves nothing, mainly because it seems like attitude has very, very little to do with the validity of god.
Dunemeister
Well-Known Member
I agree. God is valid despite our attitudes. (I leave for homework the task of figuring out how we're using the word "valid" incorrectly.)
Dunemeister, thank for taking the time. Your answer makes sense within a certain framework. I'd need to consider it more...
But you know what? For every good answer that's offered (good that is, in that it tries understand the question) there's one that's arrogant or infantile, and i'm starting to feel a little too grown up to stay.
While god might have preferences, I don't believe god has laws that he absolutely wants us to follow otherwise we will burn in hell. I think we limit ourselves greatly when we take the view of god as being a judge.
What kinds of things could they say that you wouldn't believe?
Dunemeister
Well-Known Member
Well, judge is only one metaphor among many others, including father, mother hen, architect, provider, redeemer, lover, and a host of others. It's when we distort these metaphors by focusing on one to the exclusion of the others that we run into trouble. It's also a distortion to completely reject the notion that God is going to hold us accountable for how we treat each other and respect or disrespect God himself. The precise form of that judgment (in particular hell) is open to debate, but surely any God worth revering will be concerned with justice, which among other things means compensating victims, rewarding the righteous and punishing evildoers. Take that away, and you don't have much of a god at all.
harmony999
New Member
first it matters which god you are talking about, if you are talking about the god in religion then this god does not do it because it is spookism, this god is not a carring god, but a evil god that would want to see humans and other beings suffer. this god thinks evil. there is no proof of this god, many will say "well the bible says god exist" but the bible is man made stories that was fabricated from the egiptian stories.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
O.K. However, it is the simplest explanation that accounts for all the data without contradiction. Just sayin'.
MSizer
MSizer
Oh come on now Auto, the evidence is everywhere. You just have to believe first, and then it becomes obvious.
Now of course you'd fail grade 9 biology if you treated science that way, but that's different though.
Well I think I would still revere one that was merciful vs one that sent you to hell for eternity. I don't care, there is nothing anyone can do that deserves eternal suffering. I'm sorry, that isn't justice and holds no practical value imo. That's why I really think that any religion that thinks god is that kind of being, is misunderstanding big time.
Dunemeister
Well-Known Member
Fair enough; we may have to just agree to disagree. I'm glad, though, that we agree on the fact that God is concerned about justice. We also agree (although we disagree about the legitimacy of hell) that God is primarily merciful.
Dunemeister
Well-Known Member
Who are "us"?
Dunemeister
Well-Known Member
Well, there's plenty of what people who say they've talked with God say that I wouldn't agree with. What I'm saying is that I wouldn't rule out that these people are actually dealing with God on some deep level. There are many reasons for misunderstanding what God says, just as there are problems when humans communicate using typical language forms (even in the same language and without ill will). The point is that I can disagree with your theology -- what you say about God -- while admitting that you are dealing with the same God I am (although it may be that you're dealing with another god -- that question would take some discernment).
Dunemeister
Well-Known Member
Yes well, if your standard is as low as mere lack of contradiction, I suppose you've got a point.
Conscience. All humans have a conscience.
Where does conscience come from?
In writing about the conscience Paul wrote that whenever the people of the nations that do not have law do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves.
Then Paul went on to write that the people of the nations are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them and, between their own thoughts they are being 'accused' or even 'excused'.
Once a conscience becomes hardened or calloused it becomes just like skin that has been seared with a hot branding iron. It looses feeling and can 'excuse' wrongdoing. That is why Jimminy Cricket advice to just let your 'conscience be your guide' is not always a reliable guide.
Reference verses: Romans 2:14,15; 1st Timothy 4:2
Just because I have a conscious and care about how I treat others, does not mean that there is a god. That is a huge leap into nowhere imo.
lunamoth
Will to love
Anyone who seeks "the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Seek and ye shall find.
Dunemeister
Well-Known Member
It's not such a huge leap. Conscience apparently puts us in touch with nonphysical truths. Not only that, those truths concern what is appropriate human behavior. That is, they are standards or rules. By virtue of what can these rules be "true" or "legitimate"? At least part of the answer is (IMO) the existence of a Creator.