If thou shalt not covet, isn't 'thou shalt not steal' a redundant commandment

[Harel13]

Not necessarily, not for everything. They use it in places where they don't even know they do, mostly for translations and dates. They rely on it way more than many people think. There are Messianic Churches that have 'Rabbis' that wear a tallitot and celebrate Chanukkah, all while purporting to reject anything not Written Torah.

As an ex-Christian, @Rival, do you feel that Christians "covet" the Torah?

 

[Rival]

As an ex-Christian, @Rival, do you feel that Christians "covet" the Torah?

Yes. I think they take it further and bastardise it; but I suppose we all knew that. It started with Paul.

 

[ChristineM]

How so? They've rejected almost all of it. And our definition of Torah includes the Oral Tradition, which they've rejected entirely, including Oral Tradional understandings of the Written Torah.

I don't believe many christians would say that. I would say that the times various passages from the OT are quoted to justify a christian point are probably equal if not more than quotes from the NT.

 

[Harel13]

I don't believe many christians would say that. I would say that the times various passages from the OT are quoted to justify a christian point are probably equal if not more than quotes from the NT.

Okay, I'll redefine my statement: Christians merely pick-and-choose whatever they like from both parts of the Torah (Oral and Written), and discard the rest - which is most of it. Goodbye, most of the commandments, understandings of prophecies, etc. And they seem to be managing this well on their own. What of the Torah do they covet exactly?

 

[Harel13]

Perhaps what they covet is the need to be considered "the chosen people of God"?

 

[Rival]

Perhaps what they covet is the need to be considered "the chosen people of God"?

It's already part of their theology that they have been grafted into Israel and are now spiritual Israelites, the inheritors of all G-d's promises. I wasn't even aware of this until I left

 

[Harel13]

It's already part of their theology that they have been grafted into Israel and are now spiritual Israelites, the inheritors of all G-d's promises.

Sure, but doesn't it seem like they have a constant need to prove this to you?

 

[Rival]

Sure, but doesn't it seem like they have a constant need to prove this to you?

Absolutely. Protesting too much.

 

[ChristineM]

Okay, I'll redefine my statement: Christians merely pick-and-choose whatever they like from both parts of the Torah (Oral and Written), and discard the rest - which is most of it. Goodbye, most of the commandments, understandings of prophecies, etc. And they seem to be managing this well on their own

Oh yeah, cherry picking is normal, even the commandments are regularly cherry picked.

Christian Fundimentalists and literalists consider the entire thing valid to their life. Typical christians do cherry pick what suites their needs, some few consider the OT irrelevant.

What of the Torah do they covet exactly?

God?

 

[Harel13]

God?

Well, they don't need the Torah for that.

 

[ChristineM]

Well, they don't need the Torah for that.

Hebrew belief is the source of the abrahamic god. They need hebrew writing and belief, without which, no god

 

[Harel13]

Hebrew belief is the source of the abrahamic god. They need hebrew writing and belief, without which, no god

But picking and choosing everything else is okay.

 

[ChristineM]

But picking and choosing everything else is okay.

Is it?

 

[Harel13]

Is it?

No, of course not (I was being sarcastic).

 

[ChristineM]

No, of course not (I was being sarcastic).

So was i

 

[susanblange]

Of those two in the list of 10, “Thou shalt not steal” came first. Then, came “Thou shalt not covet.”

It’s like what someone might say today, “Don’t do it, don’t even think about it!”

Coveting is the evil imagination of the heart and it leads to sin. ie stealing or adultery. It is a sin to even think about it. It's the Thought Police from George Orwell's novel 1984.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Fair point, I hadn't thought of that.

Overlap in commandments is not a problem

It you put God first truly you would not do any of the other things

No Coveting is a way to emphasize that internal desires if an issue. One may never steal or commit adultery but covet

 

[Harel13]

It you put God first truly you would not do any of the other things

I'm putting God first, yet here I am walking with strings coming out of my undershirt...yet you say I wouldn't be doing any of the other commandments? God also has positive commandments, bro. Should I quit doing those too?

 

[Rival]

I'm putting God first, yet here I am walking with strings coming out of my undershirt...yet you say I wouldn't be doing any of the other commandments? God also has positive commandments, bro. Should I quit doing those too?

Oh, one of my positive mitzvot is to set up justice courts.

But hey, I'm putting G-d first. Guess I'll just not bother with that court thing

 

[Harel13]

Oh, one of my positive mitzvot is to set up justice courts.

But hey, I'm putting G-d first. Guess I'll just not bother with that court thing

Anarchy!