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If We All Became Atheists?

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Do you know the reason why they did those things? Is it because they believed to achieve something that is not yet visible?
They did it because an important part of human nature is to explore, to try new things, to delve into secrets, to learn.
Would they have done that, if no need to revoke Bible and God? I believe, if all would be atheists, they would have been the same as any caveman, believing in the mother nature (=evolution) and living like animals.
I don't understand the question. What does the Bible and God have to do with trying to prevent children from dying?

As to what you believe, you do so on precisely zero grounds. Believing without reason to believe is all too often a foolish thing. Many, many people have died (and won themselves "Darwin Awards") for doing exactly that.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
No. That would make them theists. Please don't misrepresent what I say by putting words into my mouth. I said exactly what I meant.

Newborn babies hold no theistic position because they are unaware of theism or the concept of God or gods. Therefore, they can neither be called atheist nor theist.

As an atheist, I hold no theistic position as I am unaware of any Gods.
My awareness or lack of awareness of other peoples concepts of God have nothing to do with me being an atheist.

A theist can still be a theist whether they are aware of other people's concepts of God or not.
Why insist on atheism requiring this awareness?
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
You are not making any sense here.

To "lack belief" literally means to "not have a belief".
When it comes to things you never heard about, you definitely don't have a belief in those things, right?
How is that then not a "lack of belief" in those things?

I don't know about you, but I definitely don't hold beliefs in things I don't even know about...
As I understand it, only the White Queen believes in 6 impossible things before breakfast.

“Alice laughed. 'There's no use trying,' she said. 'One can't believe impossible things.'
I daresay you haven't had much practice,' said the Queen. 'When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. There goes the shawl again!”
― Lewis Carroll
 

SalixIncendium

अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
Staff member
Premium Member
As an atheist, I hold no theistic position as I am unaware of any Gods.
I said unaware of the concept of gods, not "unaware of any Gods." Keep this up and you'll soon be out of straw.

My awareness or lack of awareness of other peoples concepts of God have nothing to do with me being an atheist.
Yet another straw man. I said awareness of the concept of gods, not "other peoples concepts of God."

Why insist on atheism requiring this awareness?
Why insist on misrepresenting my argument?
 

We Never Know

No Slack
You are not making any sense here.

To "lack belief" literally means to "not have a belief".
When it comes to things you never heard about, you definitely don't have a belief in those things, right?
How is that then not a "lack of belief" in those things?

I don't know about you, but I definitely don't hold beliefs in things I don't even know about...
If no one had ever heard of a god, there would be no belief or lack of belief in a god
There would be no stance, opinion, or thought at all.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
I said unaware of the concept of gods, not "unaware of any Gods." Keep this up and you'll soon be out of straw.


Yet another straw man. I said awareness of the concept of gods, not "other peoples concepts of God."

Again, you are not the only one here defining atheism.

Why insist on misrepresenting my argument?

If you'd stop being so defensive, perhaps you'll understand your argument is not being misrepresented.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
If no one had ever heard of a god, there would be no belief or lack of belief in a god
There would be no stance, opinion, or thought at all.

Doesn't matter. I assuming we are still talking about babies. Babies don't label themselves. It's people who are aware of God doing the labeling. Calling a baby an atheist is appropriate regardless of the baby's knowledge. Otherwise, stop calling them babies because they are not aware of the concept of a baby.
 

SalixIncendium

अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
Staff member
Premium Member
If you'd stop being so defensive, perhaps you'll understand your argument is not being misrepresented.
I'm not being defensive. I've posted evidence that you have manipulated my words on three separate occasions and refuted arguments that I never made.

If that's not misrepresentation, what would you call it?

If you want an actual discussion, try refuting my actual argument without manipulating my words to change the meaning.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
I'm not being defensive. I've posted evidence that you have manipulated my words on three separate occasions and refuted arguments that I never made.

If that's not misrepresentation, what would you call it?

I'd call it your misunderstanding

If you want an actual discussion, try refuting my actual argument without manipulating my words to change the meaning.

What am I going to refute?
You define atheism one way. I define it another.
I don't agree with your definition and there is no need for me to accept your definition any more than you to accept mine.
 

SalixIncendium

अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
Staff member
Premium Member

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Look at you, fighting the obvious tooth and nail! :)

Burying our dead goes back a very long time. And is common among early humans wherever they were living. It doesn't matter if they thought there was an afterlife or not. What matters is that they perceived a spirit within their fellow humans that deserved their respect and care even after the body of their fellow humans had died. It is this perceived spirit within nature, animating nature, transcending nature, that sets humans apart from all other animals, and in fact defines us as human to a large degree. And this is as true today as it was true many thousands of years ago.
But not you of course. :unamused:

No they didn't necessarily believe in a human spirit - unless you have written proof that this what they believed. It is all supposition by you, and others. And since this all occurred long before we had written language you are just creating history. The spirit beliefs also (not just as to humans), as per much in the religious spectrum, is just one aspect of belief - and no doubt still believed. Just as the Gods were supposedly behind lightning and thunder, volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, and all the rest of such natural but devastating phenomena. But the long life of any belief is no indication as to its veracity - given that no doubt for millennia the Earth was considered to be flat. Just easy solutions to complex issues.
Everything 'evolves'. The question is why. And into what?

We are capable of asking questions that no other life forms are even capable of formulating. So of course we end up asking questions that we cannot determine the answers for with any degree of surety. So we adopt various possibilities and try them out. And many times we are wrong. And then we fight being wrong when we wanted to be right.

It's who we humans are. It's what we do. And it's quite extraordinary. As no other life forms we know of does anything like it.
Well tell me something I don't already know. :facepalm:
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Atheism is a theistic position.
Indeed, it is. It is the position that holds that no God/gods exists in any way that effect the course of humanity. It is the antithetical position proposed and held by theism: that a God/gods of some kind does exist in some manner that effects the course of humanity.

(Also, theism is not religion, and so atheism is not the rejection of religion.)
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
The position that they lack belief in God or gods; the opposite of theism which holds the position of having belief in God or gods.
But that's not a position; it's the lack of a position. You said so yourself.

Atheism is the lack of belief in gods, period. It doesn't require awareness on the part of the atheist that they lack belief in gods.
 

Secret Chief

Degrow!

F1fan

Veteran Member
Atheists seem to think humans are just animals, doing what they are determined to do. Do you think humans are animals?
If you want to be educated you learn that humans evolved along with other life forms, and our species is part of the animal lingdom. Having read your posts many times I understand you have been wrongly influenced by obsolete Christian ideas about humans, and you seem to resist learning facts about what we humans are. From a pssycolical perspective it is theists who follow an emotional path and adopt untrue dogmas that are more impulsive and non-rational than those who are willing to learn from what experts in science report. So you reflect a more primal way of feeling and thinking in contrast to the more sophisticated folks who accept science and reason as effective tools. So your critique and beliefs are quite ironic.
And raise spirit means, to be above animal behavior, imagine and make things, and develop mentally.
But you aren't doing that by adopting untrue ideas from a religion and rejecting expertise, science, and reason.
By what I see, for atheists only material realm exists and everything is just a chemical reaction.
Can you point out any other reality as a mortal? No you can't. You have beliefs that you adopted from a tradition of Christianity, and it has no basis in fact or truth. You being critical of critical thinkers for not adopting your untrue ideas illustrates the irony of your position. You're failing to see and understand the folly you write about.
If everyone would see things that way, I believe it would lead to animal level, because no reason for anything else, and as they say they are animals. Are atheists wrong, when they call humans animals?
Why? Because you aren't following facts and knowledge, and instead advance unture religious ideas. You're in a no win situation because atheists tend to frame their understanding with reason and following facts, including science. You reject anything your false dogma says, and without any facts or reasoning behind it. You are stating unreasonable beliefs, not reasoned conclusions based on evidence. You don't seem aware of how limited your views are.
Why should I believe your claims about atheists?
Because it is fact-based. And you don't seem to have adequate self-awareness of your bias against anything that contradicts your bad religious dogma. Look at how you question others, but not your own beliefs. You reject any explanation that critical thinkers present, and can't defend what you believe with evidence or reason.

I asked you about how you explain atheists being moral and compassionate, and able to do great things, and you have no answer. You default back to denial and ignorance. That's not a sophisticated way to live life. It's very primal.
If some atheists go above that line, I believe it is because for example Christians show different way and for to not look worse, also they have to do something better. If everyone would be atheists, they would not have reason to do so.
Look at how you can't even admit atheists can do good things wthout trying to self-serve your religion. That's selfish and greedy. It suggests to me that your religious beliefs have not served you very well. Is this how you want others to see your religion? As an ethical failure?

Atheists have to be their own moral agents and think through the consequenes of what they say and why they do what they do.
 
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