Lying is a human action. Do non-human animals lie?
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If We All Became God?
- Thread starter SalixIncendium
- Start date
McBell
Unbound
Yes it is.
And for some, god can not lie.
Why they put such a limitation on god boggles my mind.
Yes.
Though I have no idea what it has to do with humans limiting their gods.
I was saying that lying is a behavior limited to humans.
Any animal that makes use of ambush tactics, camouflage, or deception is lying. At least as I see it.
I would think that at least some animals attempt to mislead on occasion. To appear more attractive than they otherwise would be to potential mates, for instance. Or to ambush prey or to get away from predators.
I never considered foraging for food lying.
I should probably stop sneaking up on tomato plants.
Reminded me of a passage from Existentialism and Human Emotions by Sartre.
'The best way to conceive of the fundamental project of human reality is that man is the being whose project is to be god.' Given Sartre's atheism, it's a phrase that has often been used to tar him rather than understand him, but I think it's an interesting concept.
As human beings we have not only been given the opportunity to fashion our own image of man and the world around us, but we have been condemned to do so. From this we can come to understand a more universal responsibility for humankind and our planet than our own individual lives.
I was merely stating that lying is not human species specific as you insinuated here. Unless you're specifically defining lying as "deceiving with words".
But I am sure other species use vocalizations to confound as well, I just don't have an example.
Edit: found an example - Blue jays can imitate hawks to scare other birds away, and some birds in mixed-species flocks will make false alarm calls to help themselves forage.
Here are the Best Liars in the Animal Kingdom
From sneaky squid to blue jay impressionists, deceit abounds in the animal kingdom.
www.nationalgeographic.com
I'm defining lying as making untrue statements.
Geez, I'm getting so tired of quibbling over definitions of terms on this forum.
Interesting choice of lines.
It helps when we are talking about the same things to use words in the same way.
We don't use lying the same, so we won't agree who is or isn't a liar. *Shrug*
On second thought, lying is probably only possible when there is a social contract of some sort to be betrayed.
A predator can hardly expect its prey to be honest and faithful in communicating where it is. Even specimens of otherwise monogamous animals are probably not "lying" if they turn out to be oddly "unfaithful" and their mates expected exclusivity. That would make them unreliable, but not liars.
An animal would need to be capable of expressing agreement to a social contract - which is apparently a more abstract idea than even other apes and monkeys can handle - before it had the ability to lie (as opposed to simply mislead).
A predator can hardly expect its prey to be honest and faithful in communicating where it is. Even specimens of otherwise monogamous animals are probably not "lying" if they turn out to be oddly "unfaithful" and their mates expected exclusivity. That would make them unreliable, but not liars.
An animal would need to be capable of expressing agreement to a social contract - which is apparently a more abstract idea than even other apes and monkeys can handle - before it had the ability to lie (as opposed to simply mislead).
McBell
Unbound
McBell
Unbound
I define lying as "intent to deceive."
Thus I do not limit it to spoken words.
That's how I've always viewed it too.
I'm not sure a social contract is necessary for lying to take place. I think we have/tend to view it that way though because we ARE an Social species evolutionarily, so I'm sure our lens will almost always be what we deem as "pro-social".
Can you give me an example of a lie with no social contract?
Any of the deceptive practices in other species that aren't social? Cuckoos using other birds to raise their young comes to mind. They lay their eggs in another birds nest (typically smaller), where those birds then raise it, to the detriment of their own brood. There is no social contract dictating they raise their own eggs, unless we impose it.
It is a predatorial, opportunistic behavior and worse, but I would not call that lying.
It does entitle other birds to be wary and aggressive towards them, but not for being liars.
It does entitle other birds to be wary and aggressive towards them, but not for being liars.