If you allow homosexuals marriage then...

[standing_alone]

The one thing I'm failing to understand is why some people can't comprehend that there is a difference between homosexual marriage and polygamous marriage and incestuous marriage. Just because homosexual marriage is allowed doesn't mean that those other forms of marriage have to be recognized. Each form of marriage should be looked at on its own. The issue of homosexual marriage has nothing to do with polygamous marriage or incestuous marriage. It only deals with homosexual marriage. Stop bringing polygamy and incest in the the homosexual marriage debate. If there becomes a polygamous marriage movement or an incestuous marriage movement, you deal with the issues and controversies surrounding those kinds of marriages then. Now the only thing that should be being discussed are the possible effects of same-sex marriage. When there is a push for polygamous marriage or incestuous marriage, then the effects of those types of marriage should be discussed - because they'd actually be relevant. But to use polygamy or incest as a reason to deny same-sex couples the ability to marry would be absurd. Same-sex marriage isn't a ticket to polygamous marriage or incestious marriage any more than opposite-sex marriage. It's not like allowing same-sex marriage would suddenly make people incapable of criticially addressing polygamous or incestiuous marriage.

 

[HopefulNikki]

On the topic of civil rights, I made this post in another thread, but I think it goes well in this discussion too.

In Loving vs. Virginia, the United States Supreme Court declared that, "Marriage is one of the basic civil rights of man." Race was the issue in that case, but we believe it applies to everyone.

Everyone? You mean me and my sister? And me and my three husbands?

If the state denies same gender couples access to marriage they are saying same gender couples are not a valid form of relationship and if they do this they would have to give their reasons. There are no valid reasons against same gender couples outside of religious beliefs,

I feel the same way about polygamous and incestuous marriages...bunch of ignorant bigots, those religious people,

which the government cannot push on everyone. Therefore, the state must recognize same gender couples and they must allow access to the same rights that opposite gender couples have.

I know! The state absolutely must recognize polygamous and incestuous couples and they myst allow access to the same rights that monogamous, unrelated couples have. To do otherwise would violate the US Constitution that says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...."

 

[Green Gaia]

The one thing I'm failing to understand is why some people can't comprehend that there is a difference between homosexual marriage and polygamous marriage and incestuous marriage. Just because homosexual marriage is allowed doesn't mean that those other forms of marriage have to be recognized. Each form of marriage should be looked at on its own. The issue of homosexual marriage has nothing to do with polygamous marriage or incestuous marriage. It only deals with homosexual marriage. Stop bringing polygamy and incest in the the homosexual marriage debate. If there becomes a polygamous marriage movement or an incestuous marriage movement, you deal with the issues and controversies surrounding those kinds of marriages then. Now the only thing that should be being discussed are the possible effects of same-sex marriage. When there is a push for polygamous marriage or incestuous marriage, then the effects of those types of marriage should be discussed - because they'd actually be relevant. But to use polygamy or incest as a reason to deny same-sex couples the ability to marry would be absurd. Same-sex marriage isn't a ticket to polygamous marriage or incestious marriage any more than opposite-sex marriage. It's not like allowing same-sex marriage would suddenly make people incapable of criticially addressing polygamous or incestiuous marriage.

Perfectly said. Thank you, Alyssa. :clap

I think the only time people try to lump homosexual marriage and polygamous marriage and incestuous marriage all together is as a last ditch, sorry effort to deny same gender couples equal legal rights. They know they can't get us on religious grounds, because the state does not recognize religious beliefs as civil laws. They know there is no valid reason other than religious beliefs to discriminate against same gender couples. They're grabbing at straws when they try to make a connection between homosexual marriage and polygamous marriage and incestuous marriage. There is no connection. Same gender couples having the legal right to marry WILL NOT cause people to be involved in polygamous or incestuous relationships. Period. End of story.

 

[standing_alone]

Let me try to solve this dilema real quick before I have to go to work. All of these things, society considers to be sexually deviant behavior. That is the commone thread between them and that's why people worry that allowing one will lead to allowing others. I hope that helps.

I already understood that, thank you.

However, each is a seperate "deviancy" and therefore shouldn't be lumped together, in my opinion. I understand why people seem to view them as being the same, however, it can be shown/argued that allowing one doesn't mean we have to allow the other. Each seperate type can be critically assessed on its own grounds and not the grounds of every other type just because they all share being viewed as "deviancies" by a significant enough number of the population.

 

[Green Gaia]

Everyone? You mean me and my sister? And me and my three husbands?

I feel the same way about polygamous and incestuous marriages...bunch of ignorant bigots, those religious people,

I know! The state absolutely must recognize polygamous and incestuous couples and they myst allow access to the same rights that monogamous, unrelated couples have.

Nikki, I don't care. It's not an issue with me.

You cannot use fear of polygamous and incestous relationships as an argument against allowing same gender couples the right to protect their families through marriage. You cannot hurt one group because of the actions of another.

 

[Green Gaia]

Let me try to solve this dilema real quick before I have to go to work. All of these things, society considers to be sexually deviant behavior. That is the commone thread between them and that's why people worry that allowing one will lead to allowing others. I hope that helps.

I am not a deviant. Nor should I be treated like one.

 

[Revasser]

And just in case anyone is wondering (though I suspect many of you already know ) the "Slippery Slope" is a bona fide logical fallacy.

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/slipperyslope.html

 

[HopefulNikki]

Wow, you said this ABSOLUTELY perfectly.

The one thing I'm failing to understand is why some people can't comprehend that there is a difference between homosexual marriage and polygamous marriage and incestuous marriage. Just because homosexual marriage is allowed doesn't mean that those other forms of marriage have to be recognized.

The one thing I'm failing to understand is why some people can't comprehend that there is a difference between inter-racial marriage and gay marriage. Just becayse inter-racial marriage is allowed doesn't mean that gay marriage has to be recognized.

Each form of marriage should be looked at on its own. The issue of homosexual marriage has nothing to do with polygamous marriage or incestuous marriage. It only deals with homosexual marriage. Stop bringing polygamy and incest in the the homosexual marriage debate.

Each form of marriage should be looked at one its own. The issue of inter-racial marriage has nothing to do with gay marriage. Stop bringing inter-racial marriage into the gay marriage debate.

If there becomes a polygamous marriage movement or an incestuous marriage movement, you deal with the issues and controversies surrounding those kinds of marriages then.

Judging by the recent threads on RF, there already seems to be a polygamous marriage movement. Guess what's next?

 

[sojourner]

Let me try to solve this dilema real quick before I have to go to work. All of these things, society considers to be sexually deviant behavior. That is the commone thread between them and that's why people worry that allowing one will lead to allowing others. I hope that helps.

Actually, homosexuality, while a slice of the population might "consider it to be sexually deviant," has been removed from the psychiatric list of sexually deviant behavior. Just because someone thinks it's deviant, doesn't make it deviant.

This misunderstanding is what leads to homosexuality being lumped in with pedophilia and other behaviors that remain on the deviant list.

 

[HopefulNikki]

Nikki, I don't care. It's not an issue with me.

Well that says it all. The arguments you use to defend gay marriage can be used for polygamy and incest, I demonstrated it, and you just don't care. Nutshell, your question has been answered, in the affirmative.

 

[Green Gaia]

Wow, you said this ABSOLUTELY perfectly.
The one thing I'm failing to understand is why some people can't comprehend that there is a difference between inter-racial marriage and gay marriage. Just becayse inter-racial marriage is allowed doesn't mean that gay marriage has to be recognized.

Gay marriage and inter-racial marriage share something in common, however. They were both denied because of immutable traits, something that ploygamous and incestuous marriage do not share with gay and inter-racial marriage.

 

[lunamoth]

Lord please help our public education system.

 

[robtex]

Nikki, just so when can kinda get a perspective from you, should Gays be able to date, kiss or have sex? Can they live together. Can they come to your church to pay homage to the religion you practice. Can they accept Jesus as their savior? If so than why can't they marry if not why can't they EXIST?

 

[HopefulNikki]

Gay marriage and inter-racial marriage share something in common, however. They were both denied because of immutable traits, something that ploygamous and incestuous marriage do not share with gay and inter-racial marriage.

How DARE you?? Are you actually suggesting that I CHOSE to be this way? You think I WANT the weird looks and sideways glances for having two husbands? FOr being in love with my sister? Don't insult my intelligence; we're just asking for the EXACT same rights that you're asking for, stop denying us our love, we can't help how we feel.

 

[robtex]

Lord please help our public education system.

that could be an interesting thread. "Should the lord help our public education system."

 

[standing_alone]

The one thing I'm failing to understand is why some people can't comprehend that there is a difference between inter-racial marriage and gay marriage. Just becayse inter-racial marriage is allowed doesn't mean that gay marriage has to be recognized.

Oh, you won't find me failing to comprehend that - for I never use inter-racial marriage as an argument for same-sex marriage. But yes, you are right, just because inter-racial marriage is allowed doesn't mean same-sex marriage automatically has to be allowed as well. Same-sex marriage should be looked at on its own grounds to deem whether there is reason to not allow it. And well, polygamous marriage and incestuous marriage aren't reasons to not allow same-sex marriage.

The issue of inter-racial marriage has nothing to do with gay marriage. Stop bringing inter-racial marriage into the gay marriage debate.

I have never used inter-racial marriage as an argument for same-sex marriage. Some others may have, but I haven't. In fact, the same-sex marriage debate should have nothing to do with inter-racial, polygamous, or incestuous marriages. Though some use inter-racial marriage as a precedent for same-sex marriage - as in a judicial/legal sense.

Oh, and just restating others' arguments to counter them isn't really going to get the debate rolling and just makes things unneccessarily repetitive. Maybe you could try countering them with some substance and not rephrasing everything to fit what you are trying to argue.

Judging by the recent threads on RF, there already seems to be a polygamous marriage movement. Guess what's next?

Great, we can address the relevant issues regarding polygamous marriage in threads dealing with polygamous marriage.


Well, I must be off to class now. Happy debating, everyone!

 

[HopefulNikki]

Nikki, just so when can kinda get a perspective from you, should Gays be able to date, kiss or have sex? Can they live together. Can they come to your church to pay homage to the religion you practice. Can they accept Jesus as their savior? If so than why can't they marry if not why can't they EXIST?

:biglaugh: Accept Jesus as their Savior? You think I'm a Christian, don't you? O dear...Homosexuals are going to do whatever they want to do, whether their actions are illegal or not. However, we are not obligated to legally recognize their relationships. OTOH, this still isn't the topic of the thread, which I hope everyone can pretty clearly see has been shown.

 

[Revasser]

How DARE you?? Are you actually suggesting that I CHOSE to be this way? You think I WANT the weird looks and sideways glances for having two husbands? FOr being in love with my sister? Don't insult my intelligence; we're just asking for the EXACT same rights that you're asking for, stop denying us our love, we can't help how we feel.

Specious.

As Alyssa mentioned earlier, the fact that you're bringing in unrelated subjects to justify your position shows that you have no real arguments to make with regards to the actual topic at hand.

 

[robtex]

:biglaugh: Accept Jesus as their Savior? You think I'm a Christian, don't you? O dear

no idea what your religion is you didn't list it.

 

[MaddLlama]

Judging by the recent threads on RF, there already seems to be a polygamous marriage movement. Guess what's next?

Legally, there will be a much harder time defending polygamous marriages than homosexual ones. The issue of homosexuality if closer to race, because it is an immutable trait. Wanting to marry more than one person.....not so much. Inter-racial marriage is often brought into the argument because it goes back to who qualifies for equal protection under the law, and shows that we thought it was OK to restrict marriage in this way years ago, but now we don't. Where's the difference between that and homosexual marriage now? Inter-racial marriage was banned using the same arguments people are using against homosexual marriage - it will be bad for society, and because God doesn't like it. Ok, well it's been how many years later with plenty of interracial couples, and society has not come to a halt and acid has not rained down from the sky.

Show me what the difference is.