Who is this 'they' you speak of?
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If you are a Hindu: How to worship and pray to Isvara without using Image/Idol?
- Thread starter sayak83
- Start date
If it was the same God, don't you think you would also feel the same energy? Seems to me your intellect and your gut are in conflict here. Maybe not. Young man has some explainin' to do. lol.
Sorry, I was still speaking of Sri Lankan Tamils who I know.
Nah, not really, I don't feel that it's not God I'm relating to here, it's just different energies in which God is appearing. I don't see God in the sense of some deity, but as being itself, in total transcendence and immanence. So there isn't no 'same and different God'. Sometimes there's that energy of Shiva associated, sometimes the energy of Murugan, sometimes the energy of Durga, but it's that same transcendence that I am relating to and identifying with and loving.
And I'm not young, I am 22 this month!
Young 'uns. Whippersnappers. Children. Kids.
Experiences differ. I sit and stare right at the eyes of the murthies I worship. (Except in the case of the lingam) It's a personal darshan experience. One thing I've learned in the years of association with my Sri Lankan friends is that they are all quite different. Some are more mystical than others, some are atheistic, some are heavily influenced by the Christian church, some are staunch Saivites, etc. So some would lean to agreeing with me, while others would lean to agreeing with you. Certainly in general there is a ton of bhakti there, and they fit the 'village Hindu' of not knowing much philosophy at all. I hope some day you can get to one of the London Murugan temples or the Sri Siva temple there. Just the priesthood itself will vary from SV somewhat or a lot, I'm guessing.
Fireside_Hindu
Jai Lakshmi Maa
Just today I worshiped Maa Saraswati without an image.
At temple we were teaching the children how to do Saraswati Puja for Vasant Panchami. The temple has a deity of Sarswati, but because we didn't want to interrupt others coming to pray we gathered in a corner of the temple. Some children brought idols from home, and then everyone was given puja samagri to participate.
Because supplies were limited I didn't take any samagri for myself, no did I have an image. So when the various steps were called out I kept my eyes closed and made the offering gestures with my hands while mentally imagining the scenes. It's actually quite freeing to know you ca do that because you aren't always in a situation where you have puja supplies or a temple to go to.
Someone mentioned dance - there are also elaborate mudras too.
The creation of art as a form of worship is done through the drawing of rangoli. (Or really, any other kind of art)
Hatha Yoga - without all the white washing - is a way to worship with the movement of the body as well.
Honestly, any work done in the right mindset can be puja, IMO.
I suspect there is no procedure lined up for this in temples simply because if you don't NEED an image, there's nothing external for you to act on so you don't NEED anything special.
At temple we were teaching the children how to do Saraswati Puja for Vasant Panchami. The temple has a deity of Sarswati, but because we didn't want to interrupt others coming to pray we gathered in a corner of the temple. Some children brought idols from home, and then everyone was given puja samagri to participate.
Because supplies were limited I didn't take any samagri for myself, no did I have an image. So when the various steps were called out I kept my eyes closed and made the offering gestures with my hands while mentally imagining the scenes. It's actually quite freeing to know you ca do that because you aren't always in a situation where you have puja supplies or a temple to go to.
Someone mentioned dance - there are also elaborate mudras too.
The creation of art as a form of worship is done through the drawing of rangoli. (Or really, any other kind of art)
Hatha Yoga - without all the white washing - is a way to worship with the movement of the body as well.
Honestly, any work done in the right mindset can be puja, IMO.
I suspect there is no procedure lined up for this in temples simply because if you don't NEED an image, there's nothing external for you to act on so you don't NEED anything special.
Sounds like you had fun, FH. For travelling, I've learned how to visualise the entire home puja I do, or to use fingers without beads. So it's a useful skill for sure, and quite effective in terms of 'feeling it'.
Fireside_Hindu
Jai Lakshmi Maa
The children at this particular temple are very attentive once you get them started on a project. Makes it easy to teach them and also to learn from them. =)
My very first pujas were all mental because I was still figuring things out and didn't know how to perform puja at home. One of the reasons I call myself "Fireside Hindu" is because in the early days Devi and I "met" across from each other around a campfire in my mind. It's a bit harder for me to do that now because of the images, but I still pull it up when I'm traveling.
I do not necessarily have to have a Murti, it is not uncommon for other Hindus. One Guru I follow would not need a Murti to worship Kali, who at times would appear to him in the form of a young girl. As for myself, I can look towards the Sun in the day or the Moon at night, and then do wonderful worship to Devatas or Devi.
In fact, I have an entire worship I perform by just looking at the flashing brightness of the sun shimmering on the water(s) that move across the top of a pond, lake or ocean and it absolutely is wonderful and powerful.
Simply being at a place which has the Earth, Sky, Fire, Water, Air, Void in one place such as on a beach is entotal transformed into a Murti for me.
But one of the most powerful ways to worship is to sing Bhajans, the love songs to Devatas and Devi, either in Sanskrit, Hindi, English - they all work powerfully as SOUND Murti that comes ALIVE. One song is to worship THE ONE WHO STANDS BEHIND THE SUN in such songs of devotion. That One is not before your eyes, yet you SEE the Lord BEHIND THE SUN in this worship.
Fire alone, JYOTI as MURTI, is enough for me. To have ONE candle is enough to sing a song of love to God and that JYOTI or light becomes the Murti.
I can be without any Rudraksha yet, I have a very effective process of using my thumb and fingers to dance across each finger tip and palm and EXACTLY chant 108 times a Name (OR Names) or Mantra of Hinduism with perfect art and life.
There is no problem for me no matter where I am. I could be in prison, and one beam of sun light coming in can be enough.
In fact, I have an entire worship I perform by just looking at the flashing brightness of the sun shimmering on the water(s) that move across the top of a pond, lake or ocean and it absolutely is wonderful and powerful.
Simply being at a place which has the Earth, Sky, Fire, Water, Air, Void in one place such as on a beach is entotal transformed into a Murti for me.
But one of the most powerful ways to worship is to sing Bhajans, the love songs to Devatas and Devi, either in Sanskrit, Hindi, English - they all work powerfully as SOUND Murti that comes ALIVE. One song is to worship THE ONE WHO STANDS BEHIND THE SUN in such songs of devotion. That One is not before your eyes, yet you SEE the Lord BEHIND THE SUN in this worship.
Fire alone, JYOTI as MURTI, is enough for me. To have ONE candle is enough to sing a song of love to God and that JYOTI or light becomes the Murti.
I can be without any Rudraksha yet, I have a very effective process of using my thumb and fingers to dance across each finger tip and palm and EXACTLY chant 108 times a Name (OR Names) or Mantra of Hinduism with perfect art and life.
There is no problem for me no matter where I am. I could be in prison, and one beam of sun light coming in can be enough.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Deities are my friends. I respect them. Idol or no-idol. I do not need to be in our puja nitch or a temple. Anywhere, in a crowd or in a bus. So, I will say "Hey Shiva (or Rama or Krishna or Mother Parvati, they are all equally dear to me), I have this problem here .." or whatever I have to say at that moment. It is a constant communication, the line never goes dead.
Nice videos. Try them till you get the chance to join in a kirtan.
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There you go, speaking like a true atheist again, lol.
Satyamavejayanti
Well-Known Member
Namaste,
I don't think there is a actual "Ishvar", Murti in any temple? is there?.
Just like there is no "Brahman", Murti?
Murti/Prathima Puja (Not Idol/Image worship) is not a "Imposition", nor is it considered a Sin in Dharmah traditions, there is no commandments to only worship one way, so this makes the many modes of worship valid as long as it adheres to Shastra.
Well, Kirtan, Dance, Ramalila, Bhajans, Mantra Jaap, Yagya, Hawan ect can be considered as worship without Murthi
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Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
wHAT? wHAT?
Satyamavejayanti
Well-Known Member
What? What? to you to
Shrew
Active Member
You can always resort to Manasa Puja.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Most Hindus think the deity is present in a temple idol which has been consecrated. And as for Brahman, it is everywhere, Murti or no Murti. But of course, people may have different views.
Could you explain this comment? Siva/Vishnu/Durga are all considered Isvara by their devotee-s and they are believed to animate the images being worshiped.
What would be the point of praying to Brahman?
Obviously. I think we have interacted enough times so that you would know I do not have such misunderstandings.
Obviously.
Yes. Others have pointed out that Kirtan is a regular feature in the Vaisnava tradition. I was saying that Hindu temples could sport a prayer/meditation room with some basic scriptures and mantra-books and asanas where people can come and pray/meditate without requiring a murti.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
There are both kind of Hindus. Those who think worshiping Brahman makes no sense, there are others who say there is a subtle difference, so they pray.
I just can't see it getting much use. Some temples do have classrooms set apart. I don't know any that have separate meditation halls. Most people just sit quietly after a puja. Serious meditators do that at home. Our temple had a lending library once upon a time, but the books eventually all 'disappeared'. All this sort of stuff takes time and money. Are you volunteering local to take care of said room, or make a donation to support it?
We do have a community free yoga class, as do many temples. But serious practitioners do their asanas daily at home.
Perhaps you could write a letter to the local temple's board. Maybe they'll consider it.
Satyamavejayanti
Well-Known Member
Most Hindus think the deity is present in a temple idol which has been consecrated. And as for Brahman, it is everywhere, Murti or no Murti. But of course, people may have different views.
Namaste,
What i mean is that i don't think it is possible to worship Ishwar or Brahman without the use of a Murthi of one of the attributes/aspects or whatever of Ishwar, to me Ishwar is a title given to either Vishnu, Shiva Devi or any Ishta Devta.
Sorry if i am not clear on this.