If you can't beat 'em, join 'em... Realist or sellout?

[Wandered Off]

The more I think about what Ron Paul is doing, the more I become convinced he may be the ultimate Libertarian realist.

A 30+ year history for the Libertarian party shows that electoral progress is excruciatingly slow. Largely ignored by the media, Libertarians have not gotten their message out. Many people on all parts of the political spectrum find much to like about at least some Libertarian positions, but they view voting third party as a waste at best.

Duverger's Law suggests that the US political system will likely continue to be dominated by two parties, and electoral patterns certainly bear this out. I whined about it in the topic in this section called "Can the 2-party grip be broken?" http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41366

So I've kind of changed my opinion lately. The political reality seems to be that a third party has virtually no chance to win a major election. At best, it might serve as a spoiler, but the big 2 continue to dominate. That's why I'd like to see the Libertarians self-dissolve into one major party and start yanking the party in that direction. It's the only way they have a realistic shot at ever being anything more than theorists yelling from the margins.

The tactic has been successful in the past. A small but dedicated group of big-government politicians demonstrated that it's possible when they took over the GOP. It's a proven strategy, whereas running as a third party has a near-100% failure history. How many times do we need to get smacked by the same rake?

So former Libertarian Party candidate Ron Paul joined the GOP and actually got elected. Is he a sell-out or a realist with a really practical way to advance the cause?

 

[ManTimeForgot]

In the current political climate he is both sell-out and realist. The 2-party grip as you term it is functionally unbreakable. The political system will adapt; that is to say that if a third party gains sufficient support to be a contender, then either it will die out after some time or it will supplant one of the other "current" big 2.

At this point in time the Republican party and the Democratic party are not in danger of being thrust by the wayside, and as such I would posit it politically astute of him to do so.

I would like to think that the Republican party (eventually mind you) due to a dearth of new ideological influx and a fairly substantial intellectual production behind libertarianism means that eventually Republicans will either all be forced into a libertarian modality or libertarianism will replace the GOP. The jury is still out for me on how likely this actually is...

MTF

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi Wandered,

As a faithful subscriber and reader of Reason, the largest libertarian magazine in circulation (if I am not mistaken) I came across this very debate.

Of course, you'll probably know where I come down in the debate.

Where Do Libertarians Belong? - Reason Magazine

 

[dust1n]

If you can't beat them, join them. Hurt the team by beating yourself.

 

[Revoltingest]

The more I think about what Ron Paul is doing, the more I become convinced he may be the ultimate Libertarian realist.

A 30+ year history for the Libertarian party shows that electoral progress is excruciatingly slow. Largely ignored by the media, Libertarians have not gotten their message out. Many people on all parts of the political spectrum find much to like about at least some Libertarian positions, but they view voting third party as a waste at best.

Duverger's Law suggests that the US political system will likely continue to be dominated by two parties, and electoral patterns certainly bear this out. I whined about it in the topic in this section called "Can the 2-party grip be broken?" Can the 2-party grip be broken? (virtual, America, POV, religion) - Religious Education Forum

So I've kind of changed my opinion lately. The political reality seems to be that a third party has virtually no chance to win a major election. At best, it might serve as a spoiler, but the big 2 continue to dominate. That's why I'd like to see the Libertarians self-dissolve into one major party and start yanking the party in that direction. It's the only way they have a realistic shot at ever being anything more than theorists yelling from the margins.

The tactic has been successful in the past. A small but dedicated group of big-government politicians demonstrated that it's possible when they took over the GOP. It's a proven strategy, whereas running as a third party has a near-100% failure history. How many times do we need to get smacked by the same rake?

So former Libertarian Party candidate Ron Paul joined the GOP and actually got elected. Is he a sell-out or a realist with a really practical way to advance the cause?

Close enuf. I voted for him before as a Libertarian, & I'd vote for him as a Republican....or even a Democrat (Yeah, like they'd let him in their party.).

 

[Iti oj]

What the op suggest is not going to work. Too many hot issue topics. What party?

 

[Revoltingest]

Ooooo....I haven't seen this thread for a while!
What's the difference between a sell out & a realist?
"Sell out" is what inflexible true believers call a "realist".