If you don't believe in a god, do you believe in fate, destiny, luck?

[Secret Chief]

I don't know. I was using the term lightly. From what I understand, karma is action.

Here is info from a Buddha Dharma perspective. Karma

I honestly don't know if it's the same definition on Hinduism since their goals are different.

Agreed. Karma is nothing to do with fate or destiny or luck as understood in Buddhism, it means volitional action. Beyond that it is interpreted in differing ways within traditions / schools; from the early teachings that the phala (fruition) of karma may manifest in future lives to later ideas around moment-to-moment universal cause and effect.
Mechanistic predetermination (fate) is the very antithesis of the dharma (teaching).

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Agreed. Karma is nothing to do with fate or destiny or luck as understood in Buddhism, it means volitional action. Beyond that it is interpreted in differing ways within traditions / schools; from the early teachings that the phala (fruition) of karma may manifest in future lives to later ideas around moment-to-moment universal cause and effect.

Actually, in Buddhism it's seen as action, but in America and maybe western countries in general (though America is always singled out for some reason) it's more to do with fate or the "will of the universe." I think they are trying to make similarities to it and god, though.

Karma is one of those words we don't translate. Its basic meaning is simple enough — action — but because of the weight the Buddha's teachings give to the role of action, the Sanskrit word karma packs in so many implications that the English word action can't carry all its luggage. This is why we've simply airlifted the original word into our vocabulary.

But when we try unpacking the connotations the word carries now that it has arrived in everyday usage, we find that most of its luggage has gotten mixed up in transit. In the eyes of most Americans, karma functions like fate — bad fate, at that: an inexplicable, unchangeable force coming out of our past, for which we are somehow vaguely responsible and powerless to fight.

I don't understand what you mean "of karma may manifest in future lives to later ideas around moment-to-moment universal cause and effect."

I have a thread on actions that influence causality and thereby may have good or bad repercussions in return-and whether or not those repercussions are actually from our actions (our karma) or just daily flucks or curveballs. Maybe that also means that it influences future lives and not just this one-if that is what you mean?

 

[We Never Know]

It very much does because it strongly suggest there is no such thing as free will. That has major implications for things like god, fate, and destiny.

Which goes back to how can someone believe in one but not the other. . .
How can someone believe in fate for example but not a god?
In my opinion each are made up things to contribute something to.
God dunnit
Fate lead me here
I won because I'm lucky
Its destiny for Jack and Jill to be together
Etc.

 

[Secret Chief]

Actually, in Buddhism it's seen as action, but in America and maybe western countries in general (though America is always singled out for some reason) it's more to do with fate or the "will of the universe."

Yes, the common parlance use is taken to mean cosmic retribution I think. You got hit by a truck cos you stole cars in your youth.

 

[Secret Chief]

I have a thread on actions that influence causality and thereby may have good or bad repercussions in return-and whether or not those repercussions are actually from our actions (our karma) or just daily flucks or curveballs. Maybe that also means that it influences future lives and not just this one-if that is what you mean?

"actions that influence causality"
I don't understand this. Actions are a part of causality (the process of cause and effect). Every action causes something else. Every action is the result (effect) of a previous action.
"just daily flucks or curveballs"
This to me suggests random stuff happening? We can't account for all the events in our lives, but just because we can't doesn't mean to say they just randomly occur. Not sure if that's what you meant?
"Maybe that also means that it influences future lives and not just this one-if that is what you mean?"
Possibly! I was just noting the "timescale" for the karma-phala idea varies between schools. In Theravada it is likely seen as a determinant of future rebirths as we (hopefully) progress to nibbana (release from rebirth), whereas in, say Zen, it may be seen as moment-by-moment rebirth in this life.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

"actions that influence causality"
I don't understand this. Actions are a part of causality (the process of cause and effect). Every action causes something else. Every action is the result (effect) of a previous action.

Oh. Still working on choice in words.

Say you have an infinitive amount of dominos going every which away. Each section of dominoes (say every 100) is a life time but it doesn't end. No one started the dominos because there is no beginning. If the dominos are set up right, the cause and affect will happen naturally without any outside force or anything like that to drive it. This is what I think of as cause and affect.

Our actions is one domino that leads to another and leads to another. While is affects or influences another, the future "fall" influences us in return. We "are" the actions and what we do influences continued actions that we are, in a sense, a part of. I guess another way to put it is like stars forming in the universe: action=motion.

That's how I see it though words to describe it fail me. Physics analogy is the closest I can get but the terms are not quite helping.

"just daily flucks or curveballs"
This to me suggests random stuff happening? We can't account for all the events in our lives, but just because we can't doesn't mean to say they just randomly occur. Not sure if that's what you meant?

"Maybe that also means that it influences future lives and not just this one-if that is what you mean?

Well, daily curveballs (I'm assuming/or asking in the OP) would be influencing us and just in life and others at the same time. I think star forming in the universe is a better example than dominoes but it would take awhile to rewrite the analogy.

Possibly! I was just noting the "timescale" for the karma-phala idea varies between schools. In Theravada it is likely seen as a determinant of future rebirths as we (hopefully) progress to nibbana (release from rebirth), whereas in, say Zen, it may be seen as moment-by-moment rebirth in this life.

What does karma "phala" mean?

If what I'm saying with the dominoes is correct, then our actions now influence whatever happens in future lives just as moment to moment. Though, I'm not familiar with Theravada and Zen differences-I actually thought karmic teachings were one of the main concepts that universal in Eastern traditions. Western traditions doesn't have the karmic concept because, in christianity in particular, all actions are "controlled" or act within an outside source.

 

[Secret Chief]

What does karma "phala" mean?

Karma is action. Phala is fruit of the action.

 

[Secret Chief]

If what I'm saying with the dominoes is correct, then our actions now influence whatever happens in future lives just as moment to moment. Though, I'm not familiar with Theravada and Zen differences-I actually thought karmic teachings were one of the main concepts that universal in Eastern traditions.

Yes I think karma is a common concept in Eastern traditions but the meanings may not be the same. Regarding this the difference between Theravada (the earliest tradition) and Zen (a later set of schools within the Mahayana tradition) are those you mention - fruition over lifetimes / moment by moment.

Talking of analogies - are you familiar with Indra's Net?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

How can someone believe in fate for example but not a god?

Physics, chemistry, and biology.

God dunnit
Fate lead me here
I won because I'm lucky
Its destiny for Jack and Jill to be together
Etc.

That means there is no free will as choice is not even involved. Just as their is no choice at all when an Autistic person has a melt down.

 

[We Never Know]

Physics, chemistry, and biology.

That means there is no free will as choice is not even involved. Just as their is no choice at all when an Autistic person has a melt down.

The ability to choose does exist. Its a chemical reaction that happens in your brain. The autistic person not only doesn't have a choice for his meltdown(caused by chemical reactions in the brain) but mostly doesn't even realize its a meltdown.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes I think karma is a common concept in Eastern traditions but the meanings may not be the same. Regarding this the difference between Theravada (the earliest tradition) and Zen (a later set of schools within the Mahayana tradition) are those you mention - fruition over lifetimes / moment by moment.

Talking of analogies - are you familiar with Indra's Net?

Actually no, not by that name. I looked it up "it's a metaphor used to illustrate the concepts of Śūnyatā (emptiness), pratītyasamutpāda (dependent origination), and interpenetration in Buddhist philosophy."

I've only read about emptiness and know near to none about dependent origination.

 

[Secret Chief]

dependent origination.

It basically says that all things come into being reliant on other causes and conditions. Personally I would call it the core of Buddhism.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The ability to choose does exist. Its a chemical reaction that happens in your brain. The autistic person not only doesn't have a choice for his meltdown(caused by chemical reactions in the brain) but mostly doesn't even realize its a meltdown.

But that's not a choice. It just happens. And if happens without you realizing then choice definitely wasn't involved in the conventional notion of being consciously aware of your actions and foreseeable consequences.

 

[We Never Know]

But that's not a choice. It just happens. And if happens without you realizing then choice definitely wasn't involved in the conventional notion of being consciously aware of your actions and foreseeable consequences.

A chemical reaction gives me thought, gives the ability to choose go right or left.

 

[rational experiences]

If you don't believe in a god and believe everything is just part of nature evolving,,,, do you also not believe in fate, karma, destiny, luck, etc?

Why or why not?

I don't believe in nature evolving as each form present owns end as its presence. Is formed.

I believe in a karmic science teaching what you cause you are affected by. Science invented a code of destruction as a theist against form.

Just a human.

So a coded artificial cause an over voiced sharing recording of human existence spoke to me. Spirit wisdom it said against a scientist destroyer.

And it said it wished that all evidence could be given in one moment. Yet said it would take a life lived experience to understand.

So I understood karma was a human forced ownership. To tell lies coercing self to destroy to have a truth returned eventually as a future answer.

I knew as my name owned end in it...yet I was told names were given to babies by adults. So I would knowingly state my human brother was the cause as a scientist of karmic human conditions.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

A chemical reaction gives me thought, gives the ability to choose go right or left.

But those chemical reactions determined if you would go left or right before you were consciously aware of this decision being made. That means there may be no choice at all.

 

[We Never Know]

But those chemical reactions determined if you would go left or right before you were consciously aware of this decision being made. That means there may be no choice at all.

Yet those chemical reactions gave me a choice of going either way.

 

[oldbadger]

If you don't believe in a god and believe everything is just part of nature evolving,,,,

Yes...... Nature, second by second.
I'm a Deist.

do you also not believe in fate, karma, destiny, luck, etc?

I live in the moment, and have no fixed ideas about fate and luck.

Why or why not?

As a Deist I believe in a God so vast that God wouldn't be aware of this speck of dust or us, and therefore Mother Nature is the most powerful force around.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yet those chemical reactions gave me a choice of going either way.

It's may be it only appears a choice to us, and fate amd destiny are inescapable. But if that is true then it must inherently follow that free will is an illusion. This is how it must be if god is omniscient.

 

[rational experiences]

As a human I believe in my human life. One experience versus any other human one experience. Being a vast realisation of humans who choose.

I don't choose my body form. I don't choose my feelings. I have good and bad feelings by my own self presence. Yet my body does it itself.

Not my choice.

God by memory science thesis human brothers. Who by his design ability designed thesis machine. Built it himself. Controlled its activity him self.

In irradiation AI effect I learnt all about his memories thoughts recorded experiences so he can no longer lie to my female trusting innocent life.

He designed the artificial effect. Machine.

His machine never UFO earth sun released irradiation effect. Seeing sun radiation had attacked O planet Earth.

Water mass and it's losses what he owns no understanding of.

We say creation came from the eternal. A portion lost into change.

Science said so creator eternal.is destroyed.

God earth was self evolved. As a body.

Human and nature spirit was released out of eternal also. why we know. As we came into the atmosphere. Which is not creation.

O creation O earth God the planet mass. Formed it's heavens. We are humans not mass.

Why we consciously state we are not God. Inferred by human thinking.

When you know science quoted science products earth as one and God for human science and he wants to lie about it today God statements as man stated memories and knowing all recorded messages then his own recorded memories told me he is lying.

Why it AI states that he is stupid to ignore his own answers to all of his owned human questions.