If you hang around here long enough...

[George-ananda]

I think the 'spiritual but not religious' is the way of the future. However, I'm not down on traditional Christianity as long as it's not the exclusive fundamentalist type. It can still fill a need for many people who are not do-it-your-selfers. You can see them evolving more liberally. But with the incredible increase in education and information people will want to think for themselves. Even in mainstream churches the members personal beliefs are not all in line with the church's teachings.

 

[suzy smith]

Great Faith requires Great Doubt. Great Doubt leads to Great Awakening. (imo)

I would love you to explain this statement in more detail.
I am at a total loss as to what you mean by this. probably because, not being that bright I have missed the point and its obvious to everybody else.
I am sincere about this as I find this statement intriguing.

 

[crossfire]

I would love you to explain this statement in more detail.
I am at a total loss as to what you mean by this. probably because, not being that bright I have missed the point and its obvious to everybody else.
I am sincere about this as I find this statement intriguing.

If you test something that you have faith in, and find it to be true, it gives you a basis for even greater faith. Investigating for yourself, and testing for yourself, requires you to have open eyes and to be awake, instead of just following blindly along in blind faith. Hence, great doubt (and the investigation connected to it) gives rise to great awakening.

Blind faith is subconscious programming.

Investigation and finding the truth about it for yourself raises the subconscious programming into conscious understanding.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

Well, I have been hanging around here for 4 months now and I realise that's not really 'long enough', but it seems I need to spend less time on here now to read and reply to any new threads or find anything 'interesting'.

I don't know if I need to take an interest in things I am currently not interested in to get more out of this forum, or just take more of an interest in external, real-life things, but whatever it is, I have gone to spending 3-4 hours on here daily when I first joined, to only about half an hour, twice a day now and even that is getting too much.

I check my subscribed threads and there's no replies, or I wait for a reply and all it says is 'thanks' or 'I see' or 'no problem' and I mean, I waited all day...for that?

When I joined, I was a confused Hindu who was unsure about God's existence, then I became sure, then unsure, then sure again....and I figure that I never will never be a true 'believer' 24/7/365...some days I am going to have more faith than other days and yes, some days it will be at 100% and other days it will be at 0% and each cycle can last for weeks or months, but I must come to the realisation and acceptance that due to my personality, it is always going to be this way for me and therefore actually 'joining' a religion is out of the question, because there is neither consistency nor continuation in my personal belief system.

It has nothing to do with RF and everything to do with me 'humanising' God....thinking that He cares about me, or He loves me, when He couldn't care less. I have/had certain 'expectations' of God, thinking he makes life easier for his devotees if they pray to Him, thinking He has the properties of 'pity' or 'compassion', but God has none of these things. No human attributes or emotions can be ascribed to 'God'. None whatsoever.

This makes it terribly bloody hard to worship Him and I may as well be loving an inert object like a chair.

RF has nothing to do with what I think or feel about God. I only come on here to share and to discuss things within my limited, secular interests...but if I don't feel like sharing and nobody is talking about things I know about, apart from posting in such threads and asking 'what's this thread all about then'?, there's nothing more I can do.

Still, I read all those sayings 'God is Love' and all I have to say is 'He must 'Love' everybody else then'.

Anyway, that's enough for a while. I have had a migraine for the past 5 days non-stop and all that's telling me is 'stop TV, console gaming, PC, internet, reading books for a week or so and give my old, tired, strained eyes a bit of a rest'.

 

[suzy smith]

If you test something that you have faith in, and find it to be true, it gives you a basis for even greater faith. Investigating for yourself, and testing for yourself, requires you to have open eyes and to be awake, instead of just following blindly along in blind faith. Hence, great doubt (and the investigation connected to it) gives rise to great awakening.

Blind faith is subconscious programming.

Investigation and finding the truth about it for yourself raises the subconscious programming into conscious understanding.

Perfect explanation. And I could not agree more. Thank you.

One tiny proviso though, I personally can not start from a position of faith and then investigate to see if it is true. Faith in something for me comes from investigating it first to find out if it is true, the faith then follows. [the atheist in me?]

 

[Nooj]

i've gone the other way, from atheism to theism, irreligious to religious, from no religion to a traditional religion (christianity).

this place didn't have a huge influence on my beliefs, but it's been a valuable partner along the way.

 

[suzy smith]

Still, I read all those sayings 'God is Love' and all I have to say is 'He must 'Love' everybody else then'.

Anyway, that's enough for a while. I have had a migraine for the past 5 days non-stop and all that's telling me is 'stop TV, console gaming, PC, internet, reading books for a week or so and give my old, tired, strained eyes a bit of a rest'.

I read your post with a lot of empathy and I am sorry you are suffering from your migraine.
I hope this does not make your migraine worse and I hesitate to say this but, reading all you say here have you considered atheism?

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

I read your post with a lot of empathy and I am sorry you are suffering from your migraine.
I hope this does not make your migraine worse and I hesitate to say this but, reading all you say here have you considered atheism?

Thanks Suzy. Yeah, the headache really sucks.

I have 'tried' Atheism, but being irreligious is something you cannot 'try' and neither is being religious, so I am 'stuck' at Agnostic.

It's more like I want to believe in God...I really want to, but He must give me a reason to believe first before I can.

So, Atheism is out.

 

[crossfire]

Perfect explanation. And I could not agree more. Thank you.

One tiny proviso though, I personally can not start from a position of faith and then investigate to see if it is true. Faith in something for me comes from investigating it first to find out if it is true, the faith then follows. [the atheist in me?]

Is there anyone or anything that you extend trust (faith) to? Do you see everyone/everything as "guilty until proven innocent?" Or do you have enough common faith (trust) to extend to others to take up the "innocent until proven guilty" position?

Faith isn't necessarily a dirty word. Neither is belief/believe.

 

[arcanum]

Don't get me wrong I do feel that organized religion does serve a positive purpose in providing a sense of community and connectedness and exposing one to the divine and the opportunity to reflect on god. The problem is that orthodoxy in all it's varieties often becomes compulsory and rigid, questioning is not encouraged, threats of eternal punishment or excommunication are common for those who hold conflicting views outside of orthodox belief. This is particularly true of the Abrahamic faiths, so much bloodshed has been committed and justified in the name of religion. When it comes down to it I find it hard to believe that god concerns himself with the breaking some trivial religious rule or law as compared to the purity and authenticity of one's heart. There are many extremely religious people who appear holy by all outer appearances and follow all the laws of their faith but inwardly their hearts and deeds are quite the opposite. My observation is hypocrisy runs rampant within organized religion.

 

[Thief]

You could have your once solid belief's in your faith shaken to the core, perhaps even become an agnostic or even an atheist. When I first joined this forum years ago I was a pretty solid Christian, but after being exposed to such diversity of faiths I had to conclude that if an almighty god created all this why would he have such confusion regarding who he is and how one should approach a proper relationship with him? I've since abandoned exorteric or the outer form of religion and embraced a much more esoteric form of communion with the deity. Outer religion in it's rigid form is in error, imo. It's just rigid tradition which has been passed down, often with force and coercion and therefore ultimately a man made creation and not of god. I think many are beginning to realize this and why many in the modern world are claiming to be spiritual but not religious, count me as one.

Kindred spirit.

 

[LuisDantas]

Isn't it perhaps better to adopt a religion and care for its well-being? In so doing, sharing responbilility with one's brothers of faith?

 

[Jainarayan]

If you test something that you have faith in, and find it to be true, it gives you a basis for even greater faith. Investigating for yourself, and testing for yourself, requires you to have open eyes and to be awake, instead of just following blindly along in blind faith. Hence, great doubt (and the investigation connected to it) gives rise to great awakening.

Blind faith is subconscious programming.

Investigation and finding the truth about it for yourself raises the subconscious programming into conscious understanding.

Been reading the Kalama Sutta, have we?

Very nice explanation. Btw, those are also criteria some deists use... if by logic, observation and reason, you can come to accept that God exists, go for it. If you can't, don't do it because everyone else does.

 

[George-ananda]

I check my subscribed threads and there's no replies, or I wait for a reply and all it says is 'thanks' or 'I see' or 'no problem' and I mean, I waited all day...for that?

Check out my post #33 to you in thread I demand answers.

Let me think out a more serious response to this post of yours.

 

[Jainarayan]

This site has changed me and my beliefs. I came here, stumbling on the site through Google, thinking I was Hindu. After learning a great deal here, I came to know I was forcing myself to be Hindu, when in reality I was not. What I learned told me that Hinduism, like the Christianity I abandoned, is not for me. They really are not that much different in their dogma, rules and regulations, do's and don'ts. That's the sort of thing I can't hold with. I learned through this site I am not, never was, and most likely never will be Hindu. I am influenced by Hinduism, however. I had less spiritual conflict, and was happier being a deist who believed that the gods (of whom there are many and varied, not only the Hindu gods) and we are an emanation/manifestation of that deist God (God is not irreconcilable with Buddhism). So, having hung around here, I've pretty much gone full circle to what I've always believed.

 

[George-ananda]

Well, I have been hanging around here for 4 months now and I realise that's not really 'long enough', but it seems I need to spend less time on here now to read and reply to any new threads or find anything 'interesting'.

I don't know if I need to take an interest in things I am currently not interested in to get more out of this forum, or just take more of an interest in external, real-life things, but whatever it is, I have gone to spending 3-4 hours on here daily when I first joined, to only about half an hour, twice a day now and even that is getting too much.

I check my subscribed threads and there's no replies, or I wait for a reply and all it says is 'thanks' or 'I see' or 'no problem' and I mean, I waited all day...for that?

When I joined, I was a confused Hindu who was unsure about God's existence, then I became sure, then unsure, then sure again....and I figure that I never will never be a true 'believer' 24/7/365...some days I am going to have more faith than other days and yes, some days it will be at 100% and other days it will be at 0% and each cycle can last for weeks or months, but I must come to the realisation and acceptance that due to my personality, it is always going to be this way for me and therefore actually 'joining' a religion is out of the question, because there is neither consistency nor continuation in my personal belief system.

It has nothing to do with RF and everything to do with me 'humanising' God....thinking that He cares about me, or He loves me, when He couldn't care less. I have/had certain 'expectations' of God, thinking he makes life easier for his devotees if they pray to Him, thinking He has the properties of 'pity' or 'compassion', but God has none of these things. No human attributes or emotions can be ascribed to 'God'. None whatsoever.

This makes it terribly bloody hard to worship Him and I may as well be loving an inert object like a chair.

RF has nothing to do with what I think or feel about God. I only come on here to share and to discuss things within my limited, secular interests...but if I don't feel like sharing and nobody is talking about things I know about, apart from posting in such threads and asking 'what's this thread all about then'?, there's nothing more I can do.

Still, I read all those sayings 'God is Love' and all I have to say is 'He must 'Love' everybody else then'.

Anyway, that's enough for a while. I have had a migraine for the past 5 days non-stop and all that's telling me is 'stop TV, console gaming, PC, internet, reading books for a week or so and give my old, tired, strained eyes a bit of a rest'.

Well all I can do is give you my advice from my Advaita Vedanta position. You are then free to put my on your RF 'Ignore' list after this.

In non-dual thought (Advaita=not two) God and creation are not two separate things. NobodyYouKnow is God in my religion. God which is the core of everything is pure being-bliss-awareness. You are God but covered over by an ego that you mistakenly identify as the real you. So the God you are praying to and hoping to find is right inside of you. The Self is obscured by your self.

So the key is to tell your little self to shut-up enough to feel some of your real Self and consequently some of the peace and bliss you are looking for from an external God. It's what sages call the Science of Self-Realization. How to get the little self to shut up? The process is called Yoga. There are different processes of Yoga suitable for different temperaments. Meditation is a good technique to quiet the ego. And tell yourself STOP every time you have a negative thought and switch to a pleasant thought. Negative thoughts spin and create an even stronger vortex of negativity until you just have a miserable existence. Stop that crap.

Work to catch yourself when a negative thought starts and say 'STOP' this: I will do the right thing and the results are out of my control. The results are not important but my peace and happiness is. These results won't mean much on our deathbed but our happiness and knowledge that we played the game well and with compassion will matter. As long as you're putting out a good effort to do your duties and being compassionate, be CONTENT.

So stop this talk of being orphaned by some external God. All you need is already there, just tell the ego to shut-up.

 

[InChrist]

The longer I hang around here the more thankful I am not to be tossed around by every wind of doctrine ( Ephesians 4:7-16), but to know instead the love, peace, joy, freedom, and eternal hope in Jesus my Savior.

 

[suzy smith]

Is there anyone or anything that you extend trust (faith) to? Do you see everyone/everything as "guilty until proven innocent?" Or do you have enough common faith (trust) to extend to others to take up the "innocent until proven guilty" position?

Faith isn't necessarily a dirty word. Neither is belief/believe.

Guilty until proven innocent? I am not criticising or condemning anyone here am I?

Faith: a strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof. Trust: a firm belief in the reliability, truth, or ability of someone or something. Two words with subtle [or maybe not?] deference’s.

I ‘trust’ my husband, my best friend, the sun coming up tomorrow, my car will slow down when I apply the brakes.

I don’t have ‘faith’ because of the lack of evidence for God and its faith we are here to debate are we not?
I have no ‘Faith’ until evidence for God presents itself to me. I can not have ‘faith' and then strengthen my faith by some sort of evidence at a later date. To be in that position my ‘faith’ would be blind faith in my opinion.

 

[ChristineES]

I have warned Christians about this and they just laugh at me. But I have seen it happen many times.

I've been a member here for almost 7 years and I haven't had my belief shaken at all. I don't think my faith is any stronger than anyone else's, either. Not to say it couldn't have happened. (Edit to add: It says it will 8 years on my sign up date, but I joined here, forgot about it and discovered it a year later when I started posting regularly )

 

[crossfire]

Guilty until proven innocent? I am not criticising or condemning anyone here am I?

It was in response to this post of yours: I highlighted the part in blue:

Perfect explanation. And I could not agree more. Thank you.

One tiny proviso though, I personally can not start from a position of faith and then investigate to see if it is true. Faith in something for me comes from investigating it first to find out if it is true, the faith then follows. [the atheist in me?]

Faith: a strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof. Trust: a firm belief in the reliability, truth, or ability of someone or something. Two words with subtle [or maybe not?] deference’s.

I ‘trust’ my husband, my best friend, the sun coming up tomorrow, my car will slow down when I apply the brakes.

You do have the capacity to extend faith.

I don’t have ‘faith’ because of the lack of evidence for God and its faith we are here to debate are we not?
I have no ‘Faith’ until evidence for God presents itself to me. I can not have ‘faith' and then strengthen my faith by some sort of evidence at a later date. To be in that position my ‘faith’ would be blind faith in my opinion.

When did I ever bring up god?